Empowering women to create 6-figure digital product businesses.
How do I find someone to work inside of my business? How do I get help? Do you have any tips for hiring? These are some of the questions that I get asked the most from my community and my students.
When we first start our business, we never think that we will get to the point of hiring, and then before you know it, there aren’t enough hours in the day to get everything done. It can be very overwhelming!
Even after five years of hiring in my own business, I still don’t feel like an expert in this, so I am talking to someone who is in this episode!
Tina Forsyth works with visionaries and business leaders to align their business with their calling and to help them hire and lead top performers to take their business to the next level. For over twenty years, she has worked with 6 and 7 figure business owners to shift them out of burnout so they can shine.
Tina is a pioneer in the world of online business, having founded and built the organization that is home for the Certified OBM® Training. In the 12+ years since its inception, the Online Business Manager industry has become established as a key role on the team of fast-growing online-based businesses. Through the International Association of Online Business Managers, she is an industry champion, connecting business owners with OBMs who can help them thrive.
Remember, you can’t be the visionary and the executer at the same time, and you have to get help in order to grow.
We get to decide what our own role is within our business! Start hiring your team and building support around that.
Tina was so helpful in this episode, and I love all of the encouragement and advice she provided around being open and willing to receive support.
If you want to learn more from Tina, check out her website where she offers training, coaching and more.
Speaker2: [00:00:50] Community and my students recently is
Speaker1: [00:00:53] How do you find someone to
Speaker2: [00:00:55] Work inside of your business? How do I get help?
Speaker1: [00:00:58] How do I hire? And these questions are things that when people start their business, they think, I’m never going to get
Speaker2: [00:01:06] To the point where I’m going to need to hire people. And then before you know it, you turn around, you’re making money and
Speaker1: [00:01:12] You’re totally overwhelmed because there’s just not enough hours in the day. And here’s the thing I have been hiring for, I would say the last four years, maybe four or
Speaker2: [00:01:21] Five years in my own business,
Speaker1: [00:01:23] Whether it was hiring employees on
Speaker2: [00:01:25] Payroll or
Speaker1: [00:01:26] Numerous amounts of contractors. And it’s still not a strong suit of mine. This is something that I need help with as well. So I thought we should go to the expert. We should find someone who excels at
Speaker2: [00:01:37] Hiring and building
Speaker1: [00:01:38] Leaders in their companies.
Speaker2: [00:01:40] And I found someone
Speaker1: [00:01:42] Who I think you’re really going to enjoy. Her name is Tina
Speaker2: [00:01:45] Forsight and she works
Speaker1: [00:01:46] With visionaries and business
Speaker2: [00:01:48] Leaders to
Speaker1: [00:01:49] Align their business with their
Speaker2: [00:01:50] Calling and to help
Speaker1: [00:01:51] Them hire and lead top
Speaker2: [00:01:53] Performers to take their business to the next
Speaker1: [00:01:55] Level for over 20 years. She has worked with six and seven figure business owners to shift them out of burnout so they can shine. Tina is a pioneer in the world of online business, having found it and built the organization
Speaker2: [00:02:07] That is home for the certified
Speaker1: [00:02:09] Obm training in the last 12 plus years. Since its inception, the online business manager industry has become established as a key role on the team, a fast growing online businesses through the International Association of Online Business Managers. She is an industry champion, connecting business owners with
Speaker2: [00:02:29] Arms who can help
Speaker1: [00:02:30] Them thrive. And Tina has a wealth of knowledge to
Speaker2: [00:02:33] Share with us not only
Speaker1: [00:02:35] On the practical side of hiring, but we
Speaker2: [00:02:37] Also dove into the
Speaker1: [00:02:38] Mindset behind hiring
Speaker2: [00:02:39] Because delegating
Speaker1: [00:02:41] In hiring it takes a lot
Speaker2: [00:02:44] Of willingness
Speaker1: [00:02:46] To be uncomfortable to succeed at it. And that is something we talk about today’s
Speaker2: [00:02:50] Episode as well.
Speaker1: [00:02:51] So let’s dove right in. Hi, Tina. Welcome to the show.
Speaker3: [00:02:55] Hey, glad to be here.
Speaker1: [00:02:57] Yeah, I’m really excited about today’s topic, all about hiring. I was mentioning to you before we started recording that this is a topic lots of my audience is interested in because they have just started developing their digital products and making money.
Speaker2: [00:03:12] And now they’re overwhelmed because one of the main
Speaker1: [00:03:14] Things that people don’t realize is every time you sell something, even though you have created the thing to sell, you are now marketing the thing to sell. Then there’s customer service that happens and that’s usually very
Speaker2: [00:03:24] Draining takes away from you
Speaker1: [00:03:26] Selling. And that’s when people realize that they need help and they weren’t
Speaker2: [00:03:29] Anticipating needing help. So it’s a topic I
Speaker1: [00:03:32] Get asked about all the time, but it’s not something I’m an expert in. So I am very excited for you to be here and tell us all of your secrets on how to not make bad hiring choices and perhaps make better choices. OK, so before
Speaker2: [00:03:46] We dove in,
Speaker1: [00:03:47] I would love to know about your entrepreneurial journey, how you got started and what your business is today.
Speaker3: [00:03:52] Yeah, I’m very much an accidental entrepreneur. Looking back, I’m not surprised that I ended
Speaker2: [00:04:00] Up
Speaker3: [00:04:01] Owning my own business and doing what I’m doing. But in the early days, I actually started my business back in nineteen ninety nine, which makes me feel like
Speaker2: [00:04:09] An old timer, especially in the online world. And I just had an
Speaker3: [00:04:12] Opportunity come up to do some
Speaker2: [00:04:14] Consulting with a
Speaker3: [00:04:15] Dotcom startup at that time. And it was also around them that I discovered the coaching industry. So the life business etc coaching world I discovered around that time and just really fell in love with this concept of like, oh wow,
Speaker2: [00:04:30] People can get paid to do
Speaker3: [00:04:31] This. Like what? I initially hung up my shingle, I took training, I hung up my shingle as a coach.
Speaker2: [00:04:37] Truthfully, I had
Speaker3: [00:04:38] No clue what I was doing. So I had no clients and I very much was in a space a number of years back where we were buying our first house, my husband and I at
Speaker2: [00:04:47] The time,
Speaker3: [00:04:48] And I wasn’t making any money and we needed more money for a down payment and kind of in one of those crunch spaces. And I had an opportunity come up to work on
Speaker2: [00:04:58] The back end of a
Speaker3: [00:04:59] Really large coach training a
Speaker2: [00:05:01] Membership
Speaker3: [00:05:02] Organization.
Speaker2: [00:05:03] And so I jumped
Speaker3: [00:05:05] In to working with them. I was doing some event management. I was doing just kind of I was a right hand person to the general manager there. I jumped into that opportunity thinking, OK, I’ll just do this on the
Speaker2: [00:05:16] Side while I continue to build my own coaching
Speaker3: [00:05:20] Business and things really quickly kind of flipped around. I found that I loved being a part of the behind the scenes of a really successful, fast growing business. And at that point in time, like there’s lots of seven, multi seven, et cetera, coaching business and training businesses these days. Back then, we didn’t even have shopping cart software yet,
Speaker2: [00:05:43] You know, like everybody was on
Speaker3: [00:05:44] Ridgelines. You couldn’t even mute the line, so if somebody was fighting with their spokes, you would hear it like this was a number of years ago. But being a part of this team behind the scenes of like,
Speaker2: [00:05:56] Ok, we’re
Speaker3: [00:05:57] Working together to make things happen, I really fell in love with that. And so the founder of that company, unfortunately passed away. This was in two thousand and three, Thomas Leonard, who was in many ways the founder of and one of the early drivers of the coaching industry. When he passed away, it was kind of in the space
Speaker2: [00:06:15] Of like, oh, what do I do now?
Speaker3: [00:06:17] And it was this option of do I kind of continue? Do I go back to going down this coaching path or do I keep doing what I’m doing and work behind the scenes with other coaches? And so I started working as an online business manager. I started calling
Speaker2: [00:06:33] Myself an online business
Speaker3: [00:06:35] Manager at that time,
Speaker2: [00:06:37] Mainly because I didn’t want to call
Speaker3: [00:06:39] Myself a VA. To be quite honest, I knew I was working at a higher level with my clients. Now, can I ask
Speaker1: [00:06:45] What year was this? For reference?
Speaker3: [00:06:47] That was two thousand three.
Speaker1: [00:06:48] Ok, so you started calling yourself an online business manager in two thousand three. Wow. I didn’t even know that term existed back then.
Speaker3: [00:06:55] Yeah, it was my friend Andrew and I, we kind of joke about like,
Speaker2: [00:06:59] Oh, if we could go back to the moment
Speaker3: [00:07:01] Where we came up with that phrase in a conversation. Right.
Speaker2: [00:07:04] Like it was literally just
Speaker3: [00:07:06] Let me call myself
Speaker2: [00:07:07] This, because I don’t want
Speaker3: [00:07:08] To call myself that. But I started working as a note for other six and seven figure coaches and did that for a number of years where I was working with them behind the scenes, helping to run the business and manage the day to day and get teams and whatever in place. And over that time around twenty six, twenty seven ish, after a few years
Speaker2: [00:07:31] Of doing this, I had
Speaker3: [00:07:32] People coming up to me and saying, Hey, Tina, I want to hire people who do. I want to hire somebody who does what you do right. Like I need somebody to work at this level in my business. Likewise, I have more and more people who are coming and saying, hey, I want to do what you do. I want to work at this level with clients.
Speaker2: [00:07:48] And so in twenty
Speaker3: [00:07:50] Eight, I wrote my book Becoming an online
Speaker2: [00:07:52] Business manager, which very
Speaker3: [00:07:54] Obviously is becoming an online business manager. I honestly thought I would write the book and that would be it was like, OK, I’ve written a book. If you want to be an IBM, go now. I thought that was all it would be. But very shortly after that it became obvious that people wanted more. They wanted more training, they wanted more support. And so in two thousand and
Speaker2: [00:08:15] Nine, I created
Speaker3: [00:08:17] The International Association of Online Business Managers and the
Speaker2: [00:08:21] Obm Training and
Speaker3: [00:08:22] Certification
Speaker2: [00:08:23] Program, which I continue
Speaker3: [00:08:25] To run to this day. My role in it now is very different than what it was in the earlier days.
Speaker2: [00:08:31] We have people
Speaker3: [00:08:32] That do the training and I have people that run the association and such. That was the time where I really shifted my business model from being that solo producer
Speaker2: [00:08:42] One on one service provider
Speaker3: [00:08:45] That I was working. As for the first 10 years or so of my business
Speaker2: [00:08:48] Through to as I kind of
Speaker3: [00:08:50] Lovingly like to say, like, oh wow, I have like a real business now. And when we’re talking about hiring, it’s kind of funny because
Speaker2: [00:08:58] I was the person
Speaker3: [00:09:00] Behind the scenes working with my clients.
Speaker2: [00:09:02] I was the one
Speaker3: [00:09:04] That was helping build the team and bring other people on board. And I was the team member for the clients I worked with for so many years.
Speaker2: [00:09:12] And when I
Speaker3: [00:09:12] Shifted my business model from being a nobody to a training model to a training and coaching
Speaker2: [00:09:17] Model, it was very
Speaker3: [00:09:19] Surprising to me to be like, oh, I have to hire my own people now. And it was even my own coach at the time that I was working with where he’s like, you need to hire your own OBM now.
Speaker2: [00:09:30] I was like, Oh, I do.
Speaker3: [00:09:33] Like, I wasn’t even thinking about that.
Speaker2: [00:09:35] So I really
Speaker3: [00:09:36] Get this space in the early days, like you mentioned, a lot of your listeners and a lot of folks in your community. I mean, we’re used to being the one doing it all right. Like we’re the solo producer where the main person we’re the only person in the business doing whatever it is that we do and getting to a point where it’s like,
Speaker2: [00:09:56] Wait a minute,
Speaker3: [00:09:57] I think I might need some help here. I never would have expected
Speaker2: [00:10:01] That in the early days
Speaker3: [00:10:02] Of my business. Right. Like, I never would have expected that, hey, I would be where I am today. So we have our certified OBM training, our association. I also do a fair amount of leadership coaching and training as well under my own brand, under my own name and various other things in that regard.
Speaker2: [00:10:20] But having this like, oh, I have
Speaker3: [00:10:22] This kind of real business, if you will, stage in the game. You know, it’s not what I necessarily thought would happen, but I’m very
Speaker2: [00:10:31] Happy to be in this space.
Speaker1: [00:10:33] So can we define I know people are wondering this, and I feel like there are a lot of different ways that people over the years because I mean, I’ve been in the online world since, I guess technically I was in tech before that. So it was. Very like an adjacent to the online world, but I’ve had my first website since 2013, so even I feel like it’s been a while compared to I mean, the Internet has changed vastly
Speaker2: [00:10:54] Even since then. And along
Speaker1: [00:10:56] The way, I think that I’ve heard a lot of different definitions
Speaker2: [00:11:00] Between what an
Speaker1: [00:11:02] Obm online business manager
Speaker2: [00:11:04] Is and
Speaker1: [00:11:04] Does compared to what a VA, a virtual assistant is and does. How do you define the difference?
Speaker3: [00:11:10] Yeah, the main difference is a virtual assistant is very much a doer. So when you’re bringing a VA onto the team and I’m a big believer too, that everybody should have a VA in some ways I hate to use the word
Speaker2: [00:11:24] Should because it feels
Speaker3: [00:11:25] A little like shaking a finger at somebody. Right. But truthfully, as soon as we’re able to in our business journey to start to get support, even with the simple day to day doing stuff like you mentioned, customer service or scheduling or whatever
Speaker2: [00:11:39] That is, it’s a good thing
Speaker3: [00:11:41] To build that habit even for ourselves and to free ourselves up from the day to day
Speaker2: [00:11:46] Doing tasks.
Speaker3: [00:11:47] And OBM is very much there coming in at the management level in the company. And so not every business is ready to hire at the management level.
Speaker2: [00:11:57] Yet in the online world, we’re generally
Speaker3: [00:12:00] In the earlier six figure range. You might have heard of this concept, Monaca, two of like the quarter million dollar speed bump where it’s like it’s pretty easy for us independently, kind of on our own to be like, all right, I can go,
Speaker2: [00:12:13] Go, go. But there comes a
Speaker3: [00:12:15] Point where when we’re just doing everything on our own and still carrying everything on our own
Speaker2: [00:12:19] Shoulders, even if we have
Speaker3: [00:12:21] A bit of VA support or doing support
Speaker2: [00:12:23] Around us, we just
Speaker3: [00:12:25] Hit this point where we can’t grow past it. There’s only so much that any of us individually can do can only, can move forward, can drive.
Speaker2: [00:12:34] And so when Obama
Speaker3: [00:12:35] Comes into the business where
Speaker2: [00:12:37] It’s a
Speaker3: [00:12:37] Little tongue in cheek, maybe to say it this way, but when there is a business to be managed,
Speaker2: [00:12:42] Right. So there’s consistent
Speaker3: [00:12:43] Revenue. There’s solid goals for where we’re headed and where we want to go next. And when a business is in that stage, part of what they really need is they need to start building their foundation. They need to start getting the right people in place. And the team,
Speaker2: [00:12:58] They need to start getting the right
Speaker3: [00:13:00] Structure and systems and such in place on the team. They need to be working on their planning and be really purposeful and clear with, OK, here’s where we’re headed next, how do we want to get there, et cetera. And so the role of a manager is very much coming into the business to work with the CEO, to work with the business owner very much in that right hand kind of capacity of like, OK, where are we going? How do we want to get there? Great. Let me work with the team. Let me lay everything out. Let me drive the process and the projects to make sure that we’re hitting those goals.
Speaker1: [00:13:33] So in the book traction, are you familiar with that book? I’m only to the finish. I’m not interested. I remember reading traction. I’d heard about it a lot. I was always
Speaker2: [00:13:43] Listening and watching
Speaker1: [00:13:45] The people that were ahead of me and traction with something that got a lot
Speaker2: [00:13:48] Of buzz. And so I remember reading it.
Speaker1: [00:13:50] I went to Paris with my husband. I read it on that trip because, you know, our flight over eight
Speaker2: [00:13:55] Hour flight back and I had
Speaker1: [00:13:56] Just hired my first full time employee at that point. And interaction, they talk about the concept of the CEO really being the visionary and your right hand person being an integrator. And then the integrator leads basically for some people, it can be like a level of managers in different departments. Sometimes they call them
Speaker2: [00:14:13] Directors, but essentially the
Speaker1: [00:14:14] Ceo is not the one managing the people doing its integrator. Is integrator synonymous to you with an online business manager?
Speaker3: [00:14:23] Yeah, and OBM is an online integrator, essentially. Right. Because I know is also there specializing in working with online based
Speaker2: [00:14:30] Businesses as well to Gogia.
Speaker1: [00:14:32] So basically an OBM, you might hear it referred to as an integrator or like I call Hailie an operations manager. But essentially at this point, because of how small
Speaker2: [00:14:42] We are, one of the biggest things
Speaker1: [00:14:44] I did recently is I
Speaker2: [00:14:46] Control. Right.
Speaker1: [00:14:47] It’s really hard. I’m a control freak. And I think a lot of people who built a business from scratch are also control freaks, hard to delegate. It’s not an actual skill for a lot of us. And so we started growing the team where I was like, well, I can’t have other people manage that. There’s not enough people here. And that was a colossal mistake because I am not strong in management. And I don’t think when I was in corporate, that was one of the things
Speaker2: [00:15:08] I didn’t want to do. I didn’t want
Speaker1: [00:15:10] To manage people. I wanted to be an individual contributor. We’ve talked about that a lot and it didn’t work out very well when I started to take on a lot of management responsibilities. And now we just hired someone new and he’s managing them. Yeah, and the amount of stuff she already knows without me involved, I have taken myself out of being the bottleneck. I cannot believe how much easier things are now that I’ve let go of this need to control everything.
Speaker3: [00:15:37] You know, I’ve joked over the years about starting like the Recovering Control Freaks Club because, I mean, to varying degrees, that’s a huge. Part of what it is, because I agree with you, it’s part of what makes us successful, especially in the early days, like being in control, driving things, doing everything, kind of being in that space, like that’s part of what allows us to get through those early days of what am I doing, what am I selling, how do I sell this? How do I make this whole thing work? Like it takes a certain something to get through those earlier stages. And I had a similar experience. I talk about it as my identity crisis years ago. So when I mentioned my coach at the time back and this was 2010, early 2010, when my coach was like, hey, you need to hire OBM. And I was like, whoa, imagine that. But I did. I hired by First OBM Tiffany. She worked with me for seven and a half years when Tiffany came into the business. She came in and jumped right into all the management.
Speaker2: [00:16:38] Right.
Speaker3: [00:16:39] Like she took over the team. She and we were a small team. Now I’m still a small team in the way that I work. Right. Like there was a couple of days, Tiffany managing projects and driving everything became that layer between me and the rest of the team. And so she jumped in and was doing amazing work. Right, like doing exactly what I hired her for and what we wanted to be doing together. And I hit a point in the business where I was like, oh, wait a minute. Like, if I’m no longer the one doing everything, if I’m no longer the one jumping into everything, because part of what happened was the team would go to her with questions. Right. And of course, that makes sense logically, like, yeah, I want that. Like, I want the team to go with her. But then I was like,
Speaker2: [00:17:21] Wait a minute. I’m used to being
Speaker3: [00:17:23] The one that has all the answers. I’m used to being the one that’s going to jump in and save the day or whatever that might be. Even clients in our program started going to Tiffany for things and for questions. Right. And so that control freak part of me, like I was so used to and even up to that point didn’t realize how much I valued being that person that was I’m in the middle of everything. I knew everything.
Speaker2: [00:17:49] I can swoop in
Speaker3: [00:17:50] And save the day. I’m always the one who has the answers. Like, all that kind of stuff was essentially thrown in my face. Right. Like, wait a minute. You know, that moment was very much a decision of that that idea of like we’re on a road and there’s two forks in front of us, like, I can go this
Speaker2: [00:18:08] Way or I can
Speaker3: [00:18:09] Go that way. And I remember I had a conversation with my coach, same coach that was like, hey, you got to hire this OBM to begin with. He and I had a conversation about this and he helped me work through it
Speaker2: [00:18:21] Where it was very
Speaker3: [00:18:23] Real that I could have so easily just taken everything back at that point. Right. Like, I could have so easily
Speaker2: [00:18:29] Just stuck my nose
Speaker3: [00:18:30] Back into things. Hey, what’s going on here? Let me jump into this. So you’re not doing that exactly the way I would do it. So now it’s being done wrong or whatever it is. Like, I could feel myself getting pulled back into that
Speaker2: [00:18:44] Because being that
Speaker3: [00:18:46] Control freak, if you will, being that, hey, I’m the one with all the answers or I’m the one that’s going to save the day or whatever it is, because that had been my identity for so long, it was really tough to be like, oh, wait a minute,
Speaker2: [00:19:00] I had to shift that. And that definitely
Speaker3: [00:19:02] Took some deeper work around it. Right. Because I think to your point to
Speaker2: [00:19:06] Monica, there’s a tactical
Speaker3: [00:19:07] Element to things like how do we hire or how do we delegate, how do we lead, how do we whatever? Like there’s a tactical, practical strategies, steps, etc. that come into play around all of that stuff. And that’s
Speaker2: [00:19:21] Important. But I can tell
Speaker3: [00:19:22] You, having worked now, not just through my own experience, but having worked now with who knows how many hundreds of business owners helping them through coaching and training, where they’re in this own journey of delegating and leading and letting go and becoming the
Speaker2: [00:19:38] Ceo, where it’s
Speaker3: [00:19:40] Often the fact that we just don’t know how to let go. It’s like, who am I going to be if I’m no longer the one?
Speaker2: [00:19:48] I’ve said running a business
Speaker1: [00:19:49] Has stretched me personally further. The only thing that comes close is probably motherhood to me, both things. And of course, I started my business at the same time I had my first child. So it was like, you know, at the same time they’re like, oh, now we’re going to change you as a person and just stretch you in ways you are not familiar with in your life. Before we start recording, you made a mention
Speaker2: [00:20:11] How you’re you’re not like
Speaker1: [00:20:13] Your you have a little bit of blue, but you’re not like a woo woo person. I am the same way. I’m very practical. I always say I work best on a project plan. If I set a goal, I’m going to hit it. I’m typing like all the things right. Yet I’ve had
Speaker2: [00:20:27] To work on
Speaker1: [00:20:28] My mindset to grow because the whole thing of what got you here won’t get you there is completely true. And when you said the cap around two hundred fifty thousand. Absolutely. When I hit two hundred
Speaker2: [00:20:39] Thousand and actually was having my
Speaker1: [00:20:41] Second kid then because I just complicate everything because I. My second kid, and I’m like, oh, the business is really taking off right now and I had no help and that was when I needed tactical help. So like you
Speaker2: [00:20:51] Said, admen, virtual assistants, people who are doing I need customer service
Speaker1: [00:20:55] Emails out how to do right now. I need help and I need help now and then. It was like another two hundred and fifty thousand. Something like half a million was like, oh, I need someone else who can help make decisions and leave a little bit
Speaker2: [00:21:09] Here, because the decision
Speaker1: [00:21:10] Fatigue, which I realized I had a really busy corporate
Speaker2: [00:21:13] Career and so I
Speaker1: [00:21:14] Thought I understood busy until I was making so many decisions for a business all day long that when my husband would say, Oh, what’s
Speaker2: [00:21:23] For dinner? I take his hat off, I’d be
Speaker1: [00:21:24] Like, I can’t believe you want me to make another decision in my life right now.
Speaker2: [00:21:26] I’m so fatigued.
Speaker1: [00:21:28] You can’t run like that for years on end because I was constantly in a cycle of burnout, I realized. And that’s kind of what encouraged me to start relinquishing the control and needing to be the one to make every single decision. OK, so let’s back up. And when someone recognizes the need to hire, what do they do? Because a lot of people don’t know they started the business, like you said, you even mentioned accidental. Mine was also accidental. When I put up the blog, I never thought I was going to be a business. I thought I was going to be corporate till I died.
Speaker2: [00:22:01] It was very
Speaker1: [00:22:02] Accidental and it wasn’t it’s not a strong suit that a lot of entrepreneurs have. So where do you even start with hiring?
Speaker3: [00:22:07] Yeah, so when we’re looking at hiring, the very first hires that we want to
Speaker2: [00:22:12] Make in our business
Speaker3: [00:22:14] Are around. I like to call it the lather, rinse,
Speaker2: [00:22:17] Repeat activities
Speaker3: [00:22:18] In our business, the day to day stuff that needs to be taken care of. Right. So there’s admin stuff, there’s customer service, there’s tech, especially those of us in the online world. There’s a fair amount
Speaker2: [00:22:30] Of just tech things.
Speaker3: [00:22:31] Click here, submit that, push that, whatever. Like that’s the type of stuff we want to look to get help with first. And the beauty of getting help in those areas
Speaker2: [00:22:41] Is that those are things
Speaker3: [00:22:42] That are generally really easy to lay out a clear process, train people on, et cetera. Because another thing, when we’re talking control freak, here’s
Speaker2: [00:22:52] Another biggie that comes
Speaker3: [00:22:53] Up for us. Control freak folks is, well, nobody can do it as well as
Speaker1: [00:23:00] They’re ever going to get this all out of my brain and have someone understand all the little things that go into this. It just feels insurmountable.
Speaker3: [00:23:07] And if we look at it through that, I always hate the saying,
Speaker2: [00:23:10] But I don’t know of a better
Speaker3: [00:23:12] One yet. But we know that concept of like, how do you eat
Speaker2: [00:23:15] An elephant one bite
Speaker3: [00:23:16] At a time
Speaker2: [00:23:17] Like you? I don’t know who’s eating
Speaker3: [00:23:19] The elephant, because if we look at the elephant and it’s like, oh my gosh, how am I going to get all of this out of my head?
Speaker2: [00:23:24] Like, yeah, that is like
Speaker3: [00:23:25] Nobody wants that, right? Like, that’s an insurmountable task.
Speaker2: [00:23:29] But if we’re
Speaker3: [00:23:30] Look, if we start looking at things like I was one of the things I recommend clients do, if what I’m working with clients or just in general on this topic is, OK, make a list of everything that’s
Speaker2: [00:23:40] On your plate. Right. Like spend the next week, write down
Speaker3: [00:23:42] Everything that you are
Speaker2: [00:23:44] Doing and write down all
Speaker3: [00:23:46] The things that you’re not
Speaker2: [00:23:47] Doing because you don’t have the
Speaker3: [00:23:48] Time to get to them yet. And then we want to take a look at that list and just run it through that filter of like, OK, which of these things fit into the lather, rinse, repeat category, which are these things that I have to look at daily or weekly or monthly or whatever
Speaker2: [00:24:01] It is with that.
Speaker3: [00:24:02] And then that becomes essentially a job description for the first person that you want to hire. Now, does that mean you’re going to get every single thing off your
Speaker2: [00:24:12] Plate with that very first hire?
Speaker3: [00:24:14] No, but, you know, hey, this is your business, so pick the things that you like the least, right? Like if you’re somebody who’s like, oh, gosh, I can’t stand
Speaker2: [00:24:22] The tech, it sucks the life
Speaker3: [00:24:23] Out of me. Great. Look to get somebody in to help the tech, right. Or if you’re somebody that’s like, I can’t stand the customer service or admin or booking things or whatever it is. OK, great. Like hire somebody who can
Speaker2: [00:24:36] Get that off your
Speaker3: [00:24:37] Plate. You get to determine what that person’s going to be and that the very first hire I made when I hired my first virtual
Speaker2: [00:24:44] Assistant, the first thing
Speaker3: [00:24:45] I had her start doing for me was to send out my newsletter. So I sat
Speaker2: [00:24:49] Down. I did what you
Speaker3: [00:24:50] Just said in order to write like a download out of my brain, because here’s the thing. I am picky. We are allowed to be picky. We can have high standards, et cetera. That’s totally fine.
Speaker2: [00:25:00] And we also need
Speaker3: [00:25:01] To recognize that if we want people to do things a certain way. Right. Like when I’m saying, oh, I want it done right, I want somebody to do it my way, then it’s also my responsibility to show them how to do that. To get that process out of my brain. We created a template. I laid out the steps, we laid out a really clear process. And I had this woman on my team the first time she did it, I walked her through it. The second time she did it on her own. And I kind of kept an eye on it. Whatever. We went through a training process together and then, lo and behold, she could send out these things or the newsletter as well as I could in that sense. And so we can start with the small things
Speaker2: [00:25:43] Like if we.
Speaker3: [00:25:44] You look at it through this lens of, oh, my gosh, I got to delegate everything or I got to delegate
Speaker2: [00:25:49] This or I got to download
Speaker3: [00:25:51] Everything out of my brain, then that actually becomes a convenient excuse to just never hire anyone.
Speaker1: [00:25:58] That is the exact cycle I had got myself stuck in. It’s one hundred percent what you just said hit the nail on the head of what happened to me and what kept me stuck it with my growth, what ended up happening? Because one of the more complicated processes in my business is building a sales funnel and we have a lot of them. And the amount of steps and documentation that goes into it felt just impossible. I thought even when I hired my first full time
Speaker2: [00:26:22] Employee, even in my head, it was
Speaker1: [00:26:24] Like I’m never going to be able to give up funnels, like I’m never going to be able to handle the thought if it’s too much. And I remember the process and we have different types of funnel, so some are easier. So before you knew it, like little by little, it was like she took the smaller one and it was like, oh, she knows how to do this one. And when I look back, what ended up happening
Speaker2: [00:26:39] Was we had
Speaker1: [00:26:40] Some really, really long looms where I would walk her through as I was doing it. And it would be like six parts, like a
Speaker2: [00:26:48] Forty five minute different six part.
Speaker1: [00:26:50] So like really long hours long. But she would take each part, she’d be watching my processing because I’d be speaking it out loud. And then the first one she did took a long time
Speaker2: [00:26:59] And then before you know it, she’s doing my more
Speaker1: [00:27:01] Complicated ones. But it didn’t happen overnight. And I think that’s the other thing that can be unrealistic expectations.
Speaker2: [00:27:08] One of the things
Speaker1: [00:27:08] That you for a talking point that we talked about with this was trying to hire a unicorn. And I find this very interesting because I assume when you said we can talk about trying to hire a unicorn, you were thinking, don’t expect to hire a unicorn. And it’s funny because I call Haley, our operations manager, my unicorn. But to be fair, if I’m really lucky, because hindsight’s 20
Speaker2: [00:27:30] 20, she wasn’t my
Speaker1: [00:27:31] Unicorn out of the
Speaker2: [00:27:32] Gate. She became a
Speaker1: [00:27:33] Unicorn. She’s been working with me for two years as a full time
Speaker2: [00:27:37] Employee, me and
Speaker1: [00:27:38] Her side by side. So, yeah, like now she can do almost everything I can do and sometimes better. It didn’t start with her being my unicorn. And I think it’s a misconception that people think they’re going to hire in a month in the person who’s going to be a unicorn.
Speaker3: [00:27:54] Well, there’s a couple of things to the unicorn concept I like to say. The second part to that is like you’re not going to stop looking for a unicorn, but you certainly can develop a dream team. Right, because I think
Speaker2: [00:28:05] To your point, there’s this
Speaker3: [00:28:07] Idea of I’m going to find the one magical person who can do everything I need them to do in my business. And that’s it. Right. Like, if only I could find that one magical person.
Speaker2: [00:28:17] And I think to your point, because I
Speaker3: [00:28:19] Train and I work with like I’m on both sides of the coin. Right. I’m on the side of I see what happens on the back end of businesses with team and hiring and so on through our certified OBM community. And I see what happens on the front end with the CEOs and the coaches and the trainers and the folks that are hiring and building teams. I can see where the breakdowns are and that is one of the biggest breakdowns is I’m going to hire this person. They’re going to magically jump in and be able to do every single thing that needs to be done in this business.
Speaker2: [00:28:49] And they’re going
Speaker3: [00:28:49] To know what I like in a week or two kind of thing. Right. And it’s like, you know, it doesn’t work that way. And the secondary piece to that is exactly to your point. Right. It’s like you get to develop together over time, like funnel by funnel, bit by bit, like you were passing that baton, you were downloading out of your own brain of everything that’s going on. And then you get to this beautiful space where at a certain point she’s doing things better than you are anyways, which is amazing. The other aspect to the unicorn comment is just don’t expect one person to do everything and or to be good at everything either. Right. Because definitely there’s some amazing people out there who are good at lots of things for sure. That definitely is true.
Speaker2: [00:29:32] And people are always
Speaker3: [00:29:34] Going to be better at certain things than others. So it’s a little bit of a math scenario as well. Like as a business grows, you’re just flat out going to need more support.
Speaker2: [00:29:44] Now, you may decide
Speaker3: [00:29:46] To get to a certain point and say, hey, I’m good
Speaker2: [00:29:48] Here.
Speaker3: [00:29:49] I don’t want to grow past this. I just
Speaker2: [00:29:51] Want to keep this team or
Speaker3: [00:29:52] Keep it lean or whatever it is. That’s totally fine. I also don’t believe that people have to keep on growing, growing, growing,
Speaker2: [00:29:58] Because that’s another pet peeve
Speaker3: [00:30:00] Of mine in
Speaker2: [00:30:00] Some ways, too. But if
Speaker3: [00:30:02] You know that as you want to continue to grow and expand a business like every layer of growth requires
Speaker2: [00:30:08] Letting go of
Speaker3: [00:30:09] Something new. It requires bringing new people on the team. It requires more like it just takes more behind the scenes, team, system, structure, planning, marketing, et cetera, for this to happen. So to expect a person to magically be all those things and or to expect a person to be good at everything that needs to be done, even when we’re talking about, let’s say somebody wants to
Speaker2: [00:30:32] Hire a
Speaker3: [00:30:33] Va to help them out for twenty hours a month, write your first hire does not need to be a full time person. It can be like a depending where you’re at income wise and such, because there’s many good things about that.
Speaker2: [00:30:43] But let’s say you’re like.
Speaker3: [00:30:44] I want to hire somebody who’s going to be just helping me out five hours a week, starting to take some of this day to day stuff off my plate, you know, people who are good at tech are not going to be as
Speaker2: [00:30:56] Good at customer
Speaker3: [00:30:57] Service if they’re tech people, they’re generally not going to be as people. If there are people and people, they’re generally not going to be as good at tech now. Does that mean they can’t do both or they can’t help with both? They probably can, but there’s always going to
Speaker2: [00:31:11] Be something that they’re
Speaker3: [00:31:12] Better at and they’re stronger in. And then there’s always going to be things
Speaker2: [00:31:16] That they aren’t as strong.
Speaker1: [00:31:18] It’s just like with us as like the CEO to like just because you can doesn’t mean you should. And I can totally see that, because when
Speaker2: [00:31:26] We hired
Speaker1: [00:31:27] After making some flubs, after hiring Haley, we finally just hired again. And that’s when I made the
Speaker2: [00:31:33] Decision
Speaker1: [00:31:34] That I was not going to be the manager of the next person that came and Haley would be the manager. And so now Haley gets
Speaker2: [00:31:40] To use
Speaker1: [00:31:41] Discernment on what she’s
Speaker2: [00:31:42] Good at versus what
Speaker1: [00:31:43] They’re good at. And she gets to pass off the stuff that she can do that either she doesn’t find joy in it
Speaker2: [00:31:49] Or it’s just that it’s not
Speaker1: [00:31:51] A good use of her time. And so it’s like a trickle down effect. It’s very, very fun. I find it very rewarding to watch the trickle down effect happen because it felt insurmountable in the beginning. When I started from my first admin, I get a lot of contractors come and go and stuff.
Speaker2: [00:32:07] It just felt like I’d
Speaker1: [00:32:07] Never even get to the point
Speaker2: [00:32:09] Where, like, there was another
Speaker1: [00:32:10] Layer there like that almost is just as rewarding to me as an
Speaker2: [00:32:14] Accomplishment as making more
Speaker1: [00:32:16] Money, to be honest with you.
Speaker3: [00:32:17] Oh, yeah. My favorite thing in my business is the fact that I get to build a team of people I get to work with and I don’t have a big team. Right. Like I have a pretty lean. But that’s the other thing in the online world. I mean, we don’t need huge teams either. You know, I have someone who’s very much in an OBM ish type role in particular that runs our association. And I have a VA like a day to day person that helps with a lot of stuff and some project
Speaker2: [00:32:45] People here and there. But our team
Speaker3: [00:32:46] Runs pretty lean in that regard. And it’s definitely one of my favorite things in my business
Speaker2: [00:32:51] Is the ability to
Speaker3: [00:32:53] Work with. I would say those are my favorite bills to pay every month is when I get to pay my
Speaker2: [00:32:58] Team, because
Speaker3: [00:32:59] It’s also the fact of I think it’s also really important, Monica, to touch on this idea, like you’ve said this a few times for yourself, when you’re becoming the CEO of the company,
Speaker2: [00:33:09] Like we want to have
Speaker3: [00:33:10] The time and energy to do the things that we actually love doing. So, yes, we need to be driving the growth of the company and marketing and selling. We may or may not like that piece, but hey, that’s a necessity of business, right? To some degree, we need to we need to be involved in that depending on the level of growth of the business.
Speaker2: [00:33:29] But then we
Speaker3: [00:33:29] Also want to have the space to be able to do the things that we love to do. If I’m so caught up, my favorite clients that I’ve ever worked with over the years are the ones that come to me and say, I’m about ready to quit, to shut the business down, throw the whole thing out the window, because I’m so sick and tired of trying to do everything right. I’m like, then I’m like, yes, let’s roll up our sleeves and get this in here.
Speaker2: [00:33:53] I mean, in a funny
Speaker3: [00:33:54] Way to one of the first things we want to look at when we’re hiring is what do I want my own role to be?
Speaker1: [00:34:00] And that’s a hard thing to define. In the beginning, I remember just thinking, what will what do I want it to be? I want to not be stressed all the time. How do you make that happen? Like that was like how I defined it. It was hard to even know what I want it to be because I was so stressed all the time.
Speaker2: [00:34:14] What do you define it as now? Now, I would say that I’m
Speaker1: [00:34:17] Very much more moved into more of the visionary role where, like I always
Speaker2: [00:34:23] Said, we were always on a
Speaker1: [00:34:24] Hamster wheel. It was always like how to stay above water, how to stay afloat. And now I’m able to look into the future because that’s actually is actually
Speaker2: [00:34:32] One of my strong suits.
Speaker1: [00:34:33] Like I’ve called many things that have happened in the online world that I have not publicly spoke about. But I have said I’m like, oh, I can see that coming like a freight train.
Speaker2: [00:34:40] That’s a lot
Speaker1: [00:34:40] Of like my background in tech. And just like a strong suit of mine, I found I’m very interesting because actually I I love history. And so another one of my strengths is contact. And what I realize is my super powers, the CEO is I have this really weird ability to use historical context to see the future. And I also when I look to the future, what happens is I can see the different roadway’s and I quickly can process, which is the best Rodway and make a decision and move towards it. And I don’t get hung up. I’m like, well, maybe I make decisions that can be frustrating because people around me
Speaker2: [00:35:14] Don’t realize I processed all
Speaker1: [00:35:16] This in my head. I don’t verbalize it. I process it all. And then I’m like, OK, this is what’s happening. And they’re like,
Speaker2: [00:35:21] Whoa,
Speaker1: [00:35:22] My marriage. He’s like, I’ll fix something. I will come up with, like life altering things and I’ll come to him and be like, We’re doing X and
Speaker2: [00:35:30] He’ll be like, What?
Speaker1: [00:35:32] Yeah. Don’t you know, didn’t you hear what was going on in my brain husband? I just processed this off like last six months and he’s just thrown for a loop like and I’ve done that quite a few times in our marriage. And then I took the strength of.
Speaker2: [00:35:44] Actually, recently, and that’s
Speaker1: [00:35:46] When I found
Speaker2: [00:35:46] Out that the strategic
Speaker1: [00:35:48] Part of my brain, that’s how I work. So now that I’m getting out of the day
Speaker2: [00:35:52] To day, it’s like we’re
Speaker1: [00:35:53] Flourishing because I’m able to finally act on all the things I can see happening and where we should go,
Speaker2: [00:35:59] But
Speaker1: [00:36:00] A single moment in my day to focus on it.
Speaker3: [00:36:04] And yeah, I mean, it’s that’s what grows the company. That’s what becomes fun and enjoyable for you. That’s what frees everything up. And to have to have Hayley on your team, like in that office, that manager role. It’s also very much that idea of like, OK, I’ve made this decision.
Speaker2: [00:36:20] Here’s where we’re headed and OK, now
Speaker3: [00:36:22] Let’s make it happen. Like to get help with that. Part of it, too, is so, so important. We can’t be a visionary. And the executer at the same time, like those two things started to get in the way of each other. Right. It’s either like too much visionary, not enough execution or too much execution caught up in day to day to the point where we stall because we’re not able to be visionary and grow and continue to look forward. And it really is this
Speaker2: [00:36:50] Idea of like it’s our business.
Speaker3: [00:36:53] We get to decide what our own role is within all of it and build the team and build the support around that. And in a funny way, too, there’s something about permission that becomes important here. There’s a couple of other things I’d love to leave people to think about is giving yourself permission to not have to carry the weight of this whole freakin thing on our own. I mean, I’ve also got a little bit of that murder archetype in me where it’s like, oh, I have to do all this stuff like, oh, I have to carry the weight of all this. I have to do this stuff. This is just the way it is. Right. Or even that kind of maybe blue collar mentality I was raised with that idea of you got to really work hard, hard,
Speaker2: [00:37:36] Hard to create success.
Speaker3: [00:37:38] And so if I want more success, then I’m going have to work harder and harder. It’s actually not true. Right? Like you have more responsibility. You have more things to be aware of and to own,
Speaker2: [00:37:48] But you
Speaker3: [00:37:49] Actually get to do less as your business grows, if you choose to do that and also to just be able be open and willing to ask for and
Speaker2: [00:37:58] Receive support,
Speaker3: [00:38:00] Because that’s another biggie, especially I know for women, it’s a big one for myself and again for most of my clients and such to this idea of, you know, hey, I want to be willing to ask for support, but I also need to be willing to receive it and to really allow
Speaker2: [00:38:15] That to help.
Speaker1: [00:38:16] My gosh, it’s like, you know me so well. Oh, my gosh. That’s actually been a huge struggle in my life in general. I have a hard time accepting favors or I always tell my husband I don’t like to be indebted to people. It’s very who he came from a very like a church background, essentially, where the community was very important to everyone, like did stuff for each other. He just this is how he was raised. And then I’m like, oh, but if they do that for me, then I have to do something for them. And what am I going to find time to do that? And I just rather pay for what I need.
Speaker2: [00:38:50] I never wanted to accept favors.
Speaker1: [00:38:51] It was very
Speaker2: [00:38:52] Similar. And accepting
Speaker1: [00:38:53] Help, even when I was paying in the business was very
Speaker2: [00:38:56] Difficult for me.
Speaker3: [00:38:58] I mean, it could probably have a whole other conversation around that, right. Because it’s a very real thing for women. And I see where and how it’s a common journey. Right? That’s where you’re like,
Speaker2: [00:39:09] Oh my gosh, are you reading
Speaker3: [00:39:11] My mind or whatever. It’s like we all go through this to various degrees and if we’re not able to receive
Speaker2: [00:39:17] Help, then we’re going to
Speaker3: [00:39:18] Do some to
Speaker2: [00:39:18] Sabotage it.
Speaker3: [00:39:19] Yeah, I agree. We’ll hire somebody and we’ll do something to, like, blow it up so that it doesn’t work or we’ll just keep getting in the way, will become the micromanager or the control freak or the whatever. So this idea, too, of hiring is so, so much about what kind of business do I want to have and let me give myself permission to be supported and to be,
Speaker2: [00:39:42] To whatever
Speaker3: [00:39:43] Degree freed up, lift it up, whatever that is, in a way that I get to create this life that I want to create. Otherwise, we keep on growing a business and we’re the hub of everything in the middle of everything. It’s going to suck the life out of us. It sure will.
Speaker1: [00:39:58] So can you tell us if listeners want to work with you, how they can find you, what your programs are?
Speaker2: [00:40:04] Where where’s all this information?
Speaker3: [00:40:05] Yeah, Tina Forsyth
Speaker2: [00:40:07] Dotcom, my main
Speaker3: [00:40:09] Website, has a list of some of the programs and the ways I work with people. I have a training around hiring. So for anybody who’s in that, who do I need to hire and when and how? Because we do need that tactical piece of it. Right? Definitely a part of it. And then I do some leadership coaching and work with people usually in a more direct, intimate way as needed as well. For those that are like, I have this team, but there’s problems now. I mean, I always say it’s one thing to hire somebody, it’s another thing to lead them totally. Yes. They’re going to be the best person in the world. But if we’re not going, the leadership is like that’s where. Definitely fall apart,
Speaker2: [00:40:45] And so Tina Forsyth’s
Speaker3: [00:40:46] Dotcom, we can connect there, or if you email me Tina at Tina Sites Dot dotcom, that comes direct to me as well, too
Speaker1: [00:40:54] Awesome. We’ll be sure to link to both of those in the show notes for you. So thank you so much for
Speaker2: [00:41:00] Sharing all of your knowledge
Speaker1: [00:41:01] On hiring. And I was on your website before recording. And I will say you have some really interesting programs. So whether you’re looking to hire or you want to be an OBM yourself, you have a certification for that. And if you’re like me and on the other side of things and you’re like, oh, no, I got to lead this team, she can help you with that as well. So thank you so much for sharing all of your wisdom with us today. Thanks, Monica. Thanks for tuning in to another episode of the Empowered Business podcast, Let’s Stay in Touch. I just opened a brand new Facebook group for digital product creators. Whether you are new to digital products or an existing digital product creator, our new Facebook group, Digital Product Insiders, is perfect for you. Head on over to Monica Fros dotcom forgood group to join for free. See you here again next week.