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How to Maximize Your Digital Sales By Creating a Product Ascension Ladder with Michelle Thomas

Episode 31: How to Maximize Your Digital Sales By Creating a Product Ascension Ladder with Michelle Thomas

Do you know what a product ascension ladder is?

Essentially, a product ascension ladder is how you bring someone into your business, get them to know, like and trust you, and buy something from you. As they get wins from you, they move up the product ladder, and eventually, they become loyal fans.

Sounds pretty good, right?

This is what I teach in the Empowered Business Lab, and it is also what I am talking about in this episode with my guest Michelle Thomas!

Michelle joined the Empowered Business Lab and is now building a digital product ascension ladder that helps women keep their weight under control, and she does this all while working full time.

Coach Michelle is a mom of 3, grandma to 1.5 and wife. She helps women balance hormones, bust cravings, break plateaus and become the happy, healthy, active, hot, sexy woman, wife, mom and grandma they want to be – all while making food fun and taking the drama out of it! Her signature program, Become a MacroUnicorn™ helps women understand how to feed their body so that it works with them instead of fighting them for their final weight loss journey.

She has lost 100 lbs 3 times, and at 42, just as her hormones went wonky, she tackled the journey again and finally won a battle she has been fighting since she was 9 years old. Her mission is to help women win their weight loss battle for the last time because the more women that win, the more healthy children this world will have!

In Today’s Episode We Discuss:

  • Starting with a self-liquidating offer
  • Fine tuning your offering or program
  • What a product ascension ladder is
  • How to leave buyers wanting more
  • What a back end membership is
  • Using a blog to sell digital products
  • An example of a product ascension ladder


If you’re not convinced that digital products are right for you, I hope this episode about how Michelle integrated digital products into her own business successfully has encouraged you to think again!

Like I mentioned, Michelle joined the Empowered Business Lab, and her business totally changed! If you aren’t sure if you’re ready for the Empowered Business Lab just yet, I encourage you to join me for the Passion to Profit Experience. It is only $29, and it will help you discover your unique formula to easily sell digital products.

Resources Mentioned:

Monica Froese  00:00

Today we are talking about one of my favorite topics, product ascension ladders. It is essentially how you bring someone into your business, get them to know like and trust you and buy something from you. And the first thing that you want them to buy from you is something that gets them a quick win. So it’s not an expensive product. But as they get a quick one from you, and they move up the product ladder, eventually they become loyal raving fans. And that is essentially what I teach in my six month signature program, the empowered business lab, which is opening next week. And before we dive into today’s episode, I want to tell you that we are doing something completely different in our business, I believe in being the one to go first before I teach these strategies. And one of the things we’re doing is we’re taking the concept of a free challenge, which we’ve run many times in the past, and we are launching something called the passion to profit experience. It’s replacing this idea of a challenge. And instead it’s a paid event. And it is meant to help you break free of the content hamster wheel where you’re just offering free content all the time without understanding your end goal. And your angle is how are you going to make money in your business. And the way I teach is you make money through digital products. And I know that you might be wondering, am I right for the empowered business lab, like I don’t know where to start. And the passion to profit experience is $29. And it’s going to show you how to get started. And it’s a live experience. So you get to work with me in a live environment. It is a it’s actually longer than a week. It starts on Monday, August 23. It goes through Monday, August 30, there’s so much we’re going to cover, we’re going to cover your path where you learn the million dollar digital product formula, we’re going to cover your genius how to find the perfect solution for your ideal customer, we’re going to talk about your offer, how to choose the perfect product to offer your ideal customer, we’re going to do live q&a, we’re going to do working sessions together. And I’m going to do a live demonstration of how to build a successful digital Product Funnel in real time. So all of this for $29 it’s going to be an amazing experience I really think it’s going to take what we see in the online world is these free challenges and really take it to the next level because the amount of support you’re going to get in this experience is just next level. So I hope you will consider joining us you can go to empowered business.co forward slash experience. And you know if you’re not convinced if digital products are right for you, I think you really should listen to today’s episode about how Michelle integrated digital products into her own business and how it changed things for her. So before we get started, let me tell you a little bit who about whom Michelle is. Michelle is a mom of three a grandma to 1.5 so she has another grandkid on the way and a wife for 26 years. She helps women balance hormones bust cravings break plateaus and become the happy, healthy, active hot, sexy woman, wife, mom and grandma that they want to be all while making food fun. And taking the drama out of it. her signature program become a macro unicorn helps women understand how to feed their body so that it works with them instead of fighting them for their final weight loss journey. She has lost 100 pounds three times and at 42. Just as her hormones went wonky. She tackled the journey again and finally won the battle she has been fighting since she was nine years old. Her mission is to help women win their weight loss battle for the last time because the more women that win, the more healthy children this world will have. Which I mean what a bio That is right. So Michelle has so much to offer us. And she’s going to tell you about her experience inside the impart business lab, she’s going to tell you about how she still works a full time job and is building a digital product Ascension ladder alongside of that while helping other moms get their weight under control. So no more for me. Let’s dive in and hear from Michelle. You are listening to the empowered business podcast. I’m your host, Monica fros. a mom of two and your secret weapon to creating a six figure digital product business. I’m on a mission to help 1000 women make $100,000 a year. That’s right $100 million towards financial independence for women. As an online business expert, I am teaching you everything I know right here week after week. So you can join us on the journey to $100 million. Sound good? Then let’s jump in. Michelle, welcome to the empowered business podcast.



Monica, thank you so much for having me. I’m so excited to be here. It’s I’m like your stalker in the best possible way though.


Monica Froese  04:57

Yeah. So I guess we’ll just spoiler alert Michelle’s in our program the empowered business lab. And so you Listen, my favorite types of students are the ones that participate and actually do the work. So you’re like a model child for like, a model student for whatever you program creator wants, because because you take action, and not only do you take action, but like, you, you’re okay with going outside of what I say to like, if it doesn’t fit the way you work. And I think that just makes we’ll talk more about that. But I think that makes like the perfect student, versus someone who tries to like fit all of the things I teach into something that doesn’t make sense to them. You know, yeah,



I have to say that, being that I’m dyslexic, I have to, like make things work for me, or it will never, never get done.


Monica Froese  05:45

And it serves you that that you’re that you’re like that like it. So okay, we’ll talk more about that. Before we talk about that. I want to talk about your entrepreneurial journey. And you know, what, how would you even get started wanting to do digital products, and you know where you are today.



Okay, so let’s go back to the fact that I have a dual Master’s in software engineering and database design, and I have been in it since I was 15. I love computers. I love everything about technology, except for the fact that you don’t always get to tell the truth. So moving forward, I grew up in a self employed household. The one thing left on my bucket list, I made my six figure income I have the house I want, I have the kids I want. The one thing left on my bucket list of things to do is to be an entrepreneur, and make more than my father.


Monica Froese  06:39

Wow, that’s a goal I can get behind.



Yes, he was a he built a construction company with an eighth grade education. One of the smartest people I know,knew on the planet. But this this is like the last piece. So about three years ago, well, seven years ago, I lost 120 pounds, and fell in love with coaching people because they put me on my first 900 calorie diet at the age of nine and took me until I was 42. In my hormones started going wonky to actually figure out how to lose weight and keep it off. And I’m a control freak, every doctor I’ve ever gone to has told me just eat less and move more and you’re lazy. Well, it wasn’t that it was the fact that I spent a lifetime eating like crap and had to have hormones that made me crave everything and all that. So fell in love with coaching and moved forward to building a coaching business around more a job that’s more than 40 years with your teenagers at home, grandkids, a husband, you know, the whole big thing. So my one of my coaches said you need to have something that just cares. She said an SLO offer so a self liquidating offer that would basically pay for my ads so that I could build my four week program that helps women balance their macros. Well. I fell in love with Monica.


Monica Froese  08:05

Which I’m so happy about.



Yes, I started by buying like templates from you because I am so not artistic. There’s I am 100 pice 100% math brain up here. So I started buying templates and then I moved forward and joined the monthly membership, which the name is escaping me currently,


Monica Froese  08:28

The Empowered Business Box.



Business box. Yes. So I joined that. And I started implementing and then I also bought, you know, you tripled the funnel, and then I bought this and then I thought, wow, I think I bought everything from your store basically. Okay. Did I mention I was stalking you? Um, my daughter even knows your voice from the podcast because I listened to that. And she’s like, are you for that lady again. Um, but you know, so I built up a very small digital offer, but I couldn’t tell where anything was coming from. And I’m a math person. And I’m an IT person. And I knew that there was a way to figure out what people wanted. And I knew that there was a way to track where they were coming from. But he did not have the hours in my day to go figure out how to implement all of this on my own. I think I could have I maybe 4.0 in like two full master’s degrees and two partial master’s degrees in a doctoral program. I kind of love to learn, but I just didn’t have the hours in my day to coach people and do all of this. So that’s when I joined. I sat through your abl presentation twice. Oh, did I did I did all of the all of the legwork in your was three days, five days. You’re in a challenge. Yeah, I did all of that. And then I went and implemented that The first time that I started seeing some uptake, because you know, I had the right keywords. And the keywords weren’t just for Pinterest, I’m actually pulling in leads from Google without ads that I know now couldn’t tell them. But I know now. So I just I really, the more I did that I saw results. It was like, okay, EBL lab, the lab is really not good timing right now, because I have another grandchild coming, I have to go to Hawaii, but I’m doing it anyway. So I told my husband, I said, oh, by the way, I just spent a big chunk of money, you won’t see it. It’s in the business account. But just letting you know, I’m


Monica Froese  10:13

The business account is my favorite. My husband says this is like your hiding account, because of my business paid for that. He’s like, I don’t I don’t know if you can use that excuse all the time. I’m like, Oh, I sure can. Y



Yes, I was actually my father’s bookkeeper and know the chart of accounts back and forth. And I can figure out how to put a lot of stuff on the business. And it’s legal. So you know, it works.


Monica Froese  11:04

Yeah. And I’m actually really, really conservative with what I expense, I can compete, I’ve been told by several, like financial people that I’m really conservative with. But you know, in essence, my my business is pretty much my hobby, too. So that’s the benefit I have with my husband, that kind of makes it a little bit of an unfair argument. Because what I enjoy to do is to make money and I make money in the business. So when I invest in things, it’s almost always a tax write off. And he’s like, that’s just not fair. My because his hobby is not a tax write off. And that’s like one of the push and pull things we have in our marriage, you know, because he’s I’m like, do you know how much money you’re spending? He’s like, Well, why don’t I look at your business accounts? Like oh, no, that’s okay.



Yes, yeah, we have a similar situation, because I can write off my weights because I occasionally train people here at the house. I can write off supplements and stuff, if I’m doing them for different things. And I, you know, so it’s this whole thing, and he can’t write off his golf books, he can’t write off a bicycle.


Monica Froese  12:08

My husband’s a collector of records, like actual records that you play on a record player, and they’re not cheap, by the way. And he definitely buys a lot like if he goes out of town, he’ll tell it’s funny. I’ve had two nannies and he cuz he’s kind of a denial that he shops a lot. And so once these nannies were like, wow, your husband gets a lot of packages delivered. I’m like, Yeah, I know. Thank you. I’m not delusional. Right. And they’re like, you’re definitely not delusional. He shops a lot. Yes. Thanks for confirming that. Okay, so I have questions about the health coaching first. So you start it basically in like the online space by offering a four week like group coaching. Yes. program. How long ago was that?



That was three years ago. But it took me a while to figure out what my program was going to be. I’m sorry, we have jacket puppy that has to be in the lap.


Monica Froese  13:14

You have a puppy, I have a cat.



Yeah. Yeah. So it took me a while to fine tune my program because I did not want to take something that somebody else had, and stick it out there because did I mentioned that all of those some things that other people had did not work for me and people were asking me what I did. So it took me a while to build my framework out and make it something that I was proud of, um, and a few times of almost quitting. Um, you know, being perfectly honest, there were a few times there where I was just like, this is just not ever gonna happen. I’m not going to be happy with what it is. But um, I finally built out a program that I’m very happy with that I know gets amazing results. Not quickly because Quick Weight Loss I lost 100 pounds in four months, I gained it back and six. So I am not a proponent of quick weight loss. I am a proponent of getting healthy and make difference that Oh yeah, my program does that it’s not about being you know, a toothpick skinny it’s about being healthy and active and have the ability to live life.


Monica Froese  14:25

So when was it that you got the program to the point where you felt like this is this is the program I want to be teaching?



 Ironically, I got this program together in over Christmas break this last year. Okay, um, of you know, trial and error and combining everything. They become a macro unicorn program, which is my four week thing. I might have an obsession with unicorms. Um, which is my four week program is like, absolutely phenomenal that the women are coming out of there going I don’t crave anything and I’m not hungry. And then eating more than ever, and I didn’t have to give up carbs. And, you know, so they’re coming in, they’re coming out on the other side of that four weeks with, you know, 7-8-9 pounds gone. And just feeling amazing. And it’s working. So you know.


Monica Froese  15:18

So now this is it, I’m going to say the term product ascension, and then I’m going to define it for anyone who doesn’t know what I’m talking about. So product ascension is essentially how you bring someone into your business at like a lower product price. It’s like the introductory introductory offer, it solves one problem, it doesn’t boil the ocean. And that’s one of the things I like to say to my students, do not boil the ocean on your first product. And it’s like a wave for First of all, you get them, you get them in or result with it. But then also, it leaves them wanting more on your product Ascension ladder, and then they move through. Essentially, we call it a funnel, but it’s just how you bring buyers how you attract buyers to and how you get them to love you and want to buy more for you. It’s like a customer journey, I’d, funnel is such a bad word for it. But it makes sense. Because, you know, an upside down triangle is very appropriate, which is a funnel to explain how, you know, you have unlimited potential for who can find you, but who’s actually going to become a customer, you know, at the bottom of that triangle is so much less and that’s why it’s so important to understand who you’re attracting at the top so that they actually buy for you. It’s in essence, it’s actually very logical, but um, okay, so on this product Ascension ladder then so this is like your top of that, like you as you move people through it, they want to end up in your group coaching program.



Yes, well, that’s kind of the middle, I have a membership. I’m a macro unicorn, because I’m where I help with accountability. And, you know, new ideas, new concepts, because as you lose weight this way, it’s very different than what’s out there. There are people that do macros, but they are so flippin extreme. It’s like, okay, I took a protein bar out of a package, and I weighed it. And did you know that this is that it’s not accurate, the information on the package is not accurate. And I’m sorry, that’s 50 years old, I’m gonna just put it out there, you do not have time for my food to be a lifestyle, it just, it’s food, it’s food. And I just needed a framework so that I was eating in a way that my body would allow me to feel normal because I did not feel normal for 42 years food controlled me and I just needed this framework that made my body feel normal. So I use macros as a framework. So because of that the membership is really important. Because as you go through and you have questions, who are you going to ask somebody that’s weighing a protein bar


Monica Froese  17:52

Now, essentially what they would call this is a back end membership. So are the people that you put in this membership people who go through the coaching first?



Yes, there is a request I will not do I also do one on one coaching which is a very high tech high ticket offer but a will not one on one coach someone unless they have gone through become a macro unicorn and are in the I’m a macro unicorn membership, okay, is required, because weight loss oftentimes for many people, me the community, yeah, me, those people that are doing the same thing. It’s just like entrepreneurialship, it’s, you know, it can turn into a show that you don’t want to be a part of watching my mouth. But it can turn into something that you don’t want to be a part of, if you don’t have other people around you saying, Oh, I went for a walk today. Oh, my child was able to put their arms all the way around me and touch their fingers, which is my youngest favorite story about as I was losing weight, he was seven. And the majority of his life, he couldn’t get his arms around me. And one day, he was coming out of third grade and he ran up and gave me a hug. And he realized his arms overlap. And he was still a little kid. But up to that point his he could not get his arms around me. So he used to put a walk behind me at the at when we were coming out of school, he would put his arm around me and he was able to get his forearm around my stomach as we were walking out and he was so excited. He you say mommy Look, that’s a thing. You know, you need those stories. You need those it becomes oftentimes when we’re trying to change a lifestyle. We need somebody to aspire to be in order to make that thing is just like in the eplf. I go in and I post stuff because I know there are people in the lab that are tech challenged, that are also could potentially be dyslexic, and they need to know There are other options that they can figure out. Or they can ask me in the lab, and I help them. Because that’s part of it. It’s building that community, it doesn’t matter whether you’re building a business or you’re changing your lifestyle. You know, what, who is it that says, You’re like the five people you spend the most time with?


Monica Froese  20:19

That’s actually yeah, that’s a, that’s a very popular saying. And it’s something to really check yourself with, which is why it’s important for me, when I have students that are very active, it’s like, and that’s why we brought you on the podcast, too, because like, really, it transforms the entire program. Like, I just because it’s my program does not mean, I can, I can’t single handedly do it. I don’t believe that. I don’t believe that at all. I think I’m leading the program, and I have the framework for the program. But without getting other people’s opinions and insights. And even like telling us how we can do better. How are you ever going to prove you know, like, you need people that are involved? Like, that’s, that’s and that’s, unfortunately, I’ve been in a lot of programs where if a student comes in and says, Hey, you know, like, I took your concept, but I tweaked it a little bit, it works a little bit better for my business, maybe someone else wants to hear it like what like things that you do this, the the program creator sometimes gets really upset, and I honestly don’t under stand that like I, I am a firm believer, there’s no one way to do business. There’s no one way to do anything really in life like I welcome. This is why, like I tell people all the time, I have people in my life on completely opposite ends of the political spectrum, religious spectrum, because like, how do you grow and learn? If you don’t have people there who, Who are you know, learning along with you?



Well see, I grew up in a very confrontational household, it was believed that a good argument was like, the best thing ever. If we learn through arguing, I mean, not not like you know, fisticuffs, but the only way you learn and grow is by, you know, saying, okay, here’s my opinion, and then have somebody come back and say, Oh, well, my opinion is this. And they clash, and then discussing the differences and why it works. My dad used to say all the time, his favorite thing about business was trying to figure out how to give something away to somebody to improve their life, but grow your business at the same time. And that’s one of the things I love about digital products is I’m able to improve someone’s life by giving them the first three simple steps to you know, in my case, hormone balance, I give them three simple steps to hormone balance, and it’s like the basis of my framework, but it doesn’t give all the details, it gives them enough to start making change. But it doesn’t give everything.


Monica Froese  22:46

It’s essentially not the how there’s one way to look at when you’re thinking about free content, like what you’re putting out there is free versus what people pay for. It’s like explaining, you’re explaining what it is, and giving like a glimpse into how you solve it, but you’re not mechanically really giving the how that’s what people need to pay for. And that’s, that can be difficult for a lot of people in the start with digital products, because like my, my target market is actually bloggers who have been giving, as I say, the kitchen sink away for free, and then they’re frustrated. They’re like I have spent hours and 1000s of dollars. And I was supposed to be making money. And they probably told her husband, they’d be making money by now. And everyone’s Poo pooing what they’re doing online, because they’re like, yeah, you know, you did this blog thing, like people used to say blog with like a scowl on their face to me. And it’s like, You mean my blog that makes multiple six figures a year, that blog that you’re no point but a lot of people don’t get there, because all they’ve done is put out all this free content, and then they wonder why they’re not making money? Well, it’s because you’re not offering anything for sale.



I fell into that, because I was trying to grow my audience. So I created a blog. And I was giving so much away. Every blog had a worksheet and every worksheet gave you know that how and I’m in the process of cleaning it because there needs to be a whole lot more why and a whole lot less out because that introduction has got to be almost convincing them that they’re not crazy that they can do this. It’s it’s got to be the sales process in blog format. And there’s something a little something not a worksheet that gives them everything every time you write a blog posts


Monica Froese  24:37

 The correct way to do a blog. If you’re going to blog, you don’t have to, I offer you do not need a blog. I don’t blog anymore. And I do just fine with all my digital products. And they’re not just digital products, teaching how to sell digital products. We have a lot of digital products that sell every day. They have nothing to do with me teaching the topic and you don’t need to blog but if you do, the whole point of the blog is to get them to take a singular action period. And that action has to benefit your business. And the only way it can benefit your business is if it leads to a sale. So it’s okay if it’s just to get the email address. But guess what you’re offering. As soon as the email address hits, as soon as it’s given, you’re offering what what you referred to earlier is that self liquidating offer? We call it a tripwire. Honestly, it’s a limited time offer. That’s what it is. That’s like the, that’s like, I call it the gateway drug into digital products. When when a blogger discovers the power of they’re like, Well, yeah, I collect email addresses, and they don’t really know why and they don’t really do anything with it. And it never leads to money all when I have my bloggers The first thing, put a tripwire a limited time offer behind that opt in and do nothing else. And they get that first sale. And they’re like, Oh, this is what make money online.



I’m a coach. But do you know how many times I got emails back from a blog post that I sent out or a podcast because I have a podcast called reaching Wonderland. And that podcast, people would like respond and say, you know, I love what you’re putting out there. But I don’t know how you help me. And that happened, like, right before December. And I was like, Okay, this is ridiculous. I’m making, you know, a little bit of money, enough to cover some of the expenses. But really, I’m not covering anything, it’s a hobby and and until I make money, you know, repeatedly consistently at the hobby. So once I got that I was like, Okay, I need the SLO. I need that tripwire ID that I’ve got to figure this out. So you know, and you do a phenomenal job of teaching us how to come up with those keywords, how to figure out what people need, and then creating something from that, because I actually took a step back from what I was offering, and figured out Oh, there’s a level before this. And what I’m offering at the SLO at the $7 price is too much because I was getting emails, I don’t understand and this and that.


Monica Froese  27:07

And you should never be answering emails for $7 product ever , you’re right. The only time you should answer an email and seven other product is someone spelled their email address wrong and they didn’t get the product they bought period. But no, like you should not Yes, that is a really actually good differentiation you made that that is in your brand new new, like no, this is too much if they’re confused on such a cheap product, because you can’t support that.



Right. So I went back and stuff as I went through all of your, you know, your free stuff. And I looked at what you were offering for free and I was like, Okay, so how can I do something similar, break things down a little more, give them a win, I guess a win a win, you know, I want them to they’re they’re only looking for weight loss, I want them to start looking for improved energy for improved clarity, because unfortunately, once your hormones go wonky, it’s like looking through a fog. And so you know, I want them to notice things like the clarity and the energy and their mood, because the wonky hormones also affect mood. So if they start looking for those things, and I can give them three simple tips or steps to improve those, that is going to be like the $9 off because I was obviously or $7 $9 whatever, because I was obviously not charging enough for the one that they were unengaging me with questions, the so and I needed to add more to it. So I took what you thought and I created a guide versus a mini course. And the guide breaks down those three steps. And then it leads to the mini course and a macro calculator. And then that leads to become a macro unicorn. And then that leads to I’m a macro unicorn. And then if I see somebody really struggling, because my one on one coaching is by application only, I will offer that to them. So you


Monica Froese  29:11

have a beautiful product ascension ladder now.



And I even have a diagram thanks to you, because in order to explain it to you, I had to put it in a diagram and I printed off the diagram. And it’s going in my new office because I’m getting an office upgrade. Okay. So you know, I’ve printed it off so that I’m not creating things outside of that because I don’t want crazy. I want a simple ascension process. Yes, I have more than one way to get into it, which means I have to adjust the guides a little bit but because of that everything after those guides is the same.



Yes, well, one of them I had developed But it had a different name. And it was just a Google Doc. One of the things that is so phenomenal about the lab is the templates that come with that, because you have an E book template, and then you have a mini course ebook template. And you know, all of that we mentioned, I’m not artistically inclined. So I was able to take that ebook template and the guide, give it off to my 16 year old who is my VA and say, Go make this look pretty. And then on the last page, where there’s the offer and stuff, I was like, okay, don’t do that. I will come back in and fill that in. Because, you know, what are we doing as parents if we’re not teaching our children that a they have to work through things and be that there are ways that they can be self employed to my daughter is working on love that because she does not want to go to work for somebody else while she’s in college. And she’s going into her junior year. So she’s learning how to be a VA kills three birds with one stone. One last thing I don’t have to do, and keeps her gainfully employed. Yeah, well, you know what, that’s me. I


Monica Froese  31:06

can see my my daughter, she’s eight now. But as soon as she can be on payroll, actually, I think you can technically put them on payroll now. It’s a little different, though, when they’re younger, but because she’s I have a feeling. She’s got the deep entrepreneurial spirit to her and she’ll I am not creative like you either. That’s what I have Haley for our operations in my life. Ever. Also, if you’re if you ever join any of my programs, all of my students ask where they find their Haley. And I got very, very lucky I because she is like, she, it’s so funny, because she had her brain to a degree works like mine. So we track really well together. But if someone just came to my door to this, my house is so crazy this morning. So this is like real life podcasting going on. My Google just told us someone to edit our front door. So if you heard that, Oh, wow. Hear it. But you know, I have a dog in my laps. Yeah, it’s real, real life. And you’re podcasting as a mom with lots of kids in the house. Okay, so now you have your product Ascension ladder figured out, right? It’s built, your daughter helped you build it, which is a great learning lesson for her. And so now and the whole point of PBL is, and this is pretty much how we’re positioning it now is how to grow your audience and get paid to do it at the same time. The idea is that, you know, your $27 product is not where you end, the idea is that like, like what you were told by your coach early on, is that you know, to bring people into your group coaching is going to cost you a lot of money. And you know, to find those, essentially co leads, like people educating them on what you do. And it’s hard to educate someone on a big program, it’s so much in this is what bloggers try to do. If they’re doing it, right, they try to give you all the free content to educate, hopefully, somewhere that you’re gonna buy from them. But unfortunately, the stepladder approach is so much more effective if you’re getting paid for it along the way. So that’s like, in a nutshell, getting paid for your entire product, send your letter, which is what you’re doing.



Yes, because the goal is less time for me, more automation, so that I can focus and love on the people that come into my programs, because I’m like one of those people like you that I can’t not answer a question. And I want people success so badly that I want to love on them and spend time with them. And sometimes I you know, I messaged some people on Facebook Messenger and you know, it’s once they get into my group program and into my membership have very hard have boundary issues, because I want them to succeed. And I want to answer their questions. And sometimes the answer is, I will put a video together and put it in the group for everybody because this question is huge, and everybody needs to be answer. Sometimes it’s you know, my dog was hit by a car and my kid is screaming and I just need to talk through it so I don’t eat through it.


Monica Froese  34:06

You know, and then I mean you are very similar in this regard because but the key is I am so I will go over and above for people who are equally as dedicated to see like they’re putting in the work if you’re putting in the work, I will I don’t care what the program limits were or whatever I will help you until I’m blue in the face. If I can, if you are if you are involved in putting in the work that is like the key thing I’m so motivated to help people that are that are working to build and and that’s why I feel like you resonate like you resonate so much with me because you really put in the work and and did and give to such great insight. So you’re like a model student. So thank you.



Thank you. It’s kind of being a student is something I absolutely love. And I think that’s the reason I love coaching so much because I can pick out those people in the coaching programs. I tell people all the time, I want to be your favorite teacher. Your favorite code from high school, the one that you like, did the extra credit in their class, because you just couldn’t wait to get into their class thing. I love it. And that’s how I’m my I have a child, that’s also a teacher’s pet. And she does the same thing. And it’s this whole concept of, you know, being that person to somebody else is extremely motivating. But then, if I’m wanting that in my programs, I have to give that in other people’s programs. But some some things it’s received. Well, like with, you know, we’ve hit it off, we’ve had a few conversations perfect, like, yeah, we think what, um, you know, but on the other side, sometimes it’s not so well received I girl in your program, I have access to you via the group. And I know, if I post something in the group, you’re going to respond, there’s, you know, there’s rarely reason to reach out via messenger other than to take Oh, Monica, I love that statement. Well, I


Monica Froese  36:03

will end on this, but I will say this for anyone. So the hardest thing is, and this I have to work really hard on this, I’ve had people come into my paid programs to poach my students. And unfortunately, there are bad apples everywhere you go in life. And it is hard, you know, I’d never want it to be that I can’t do this, if I’m closed down to people like you who are genuinely looking to to help their people do better. And they just need those marketing skills to do so. I don’t want to I don’t want to be closed off to that because a few people took advantage of me and I happened a lot when I ran the Pinterest ads course, like we’ve had people come in just poaching students, and in general, like being combative with me, like I’m going to post something opposite of what you say. But it’s not because I’m trying to give a different viewpoint to help your students, I’m really getting them to click on my Facebook profile. So then they’ll come and join my thing that’s a competitor to yours. And that’s like, That’s gross. People don’t do that. You know, until like, coaches that do the same thing. Yeah, and like I said, bad apples everywhere. But you cannot let that stop you from helping the people that really need you. Because if I had done that we’d never would have met if I let it stop me. And what a shame that would have been, you know, like for us never told that. Yes,



I am so glad that we met it has this whole process has changed a lot of my business for the better. I would pull away. I I’ve got friends that I’m like, Oh yeah, you have to go you you have to go get into Monica’s world and then don’t hate me because you spend so much money.


Monica Froese  37:35

Well, that, honestly, that means so much to me. So thank you, thank you for doing that. And for like being genuine about it, you know, like that, that makes me it makes it all worth it. It makes all those copycats I ever had worth it that I stuck in and kept doing it to find people like you. So thank you.



Well, I am very, very glad you stuck to it. Because you are making a change in my business, and even my husband’s chiropractic business that you don’t even know anything about. So..


Monica Froese  38:01

That’s amazing. Okay, well, as people were listening, I’m sure they’re more interested in the macro stuff, too. Because there’s a lot I mean, our target audience is women. And so there’s probably and I’m very open about, I’ve talked about my weight loss struggles on the podcast, and there’ll be more about that coming out later. So if people are interested in working with you, how, how do they get into this funnel of yours?



Okay, if any, it’s very simple, because simple is good. Go to go dot macro unicorn.com. That’s all they have to do. You know, and what is more unique than a macro unicorn? Right? I almost wore my unicorn shirt, just you know, because that’s me.


Monica Froese  38:42

I like unicorns. My daughter likes unicorns, too. So you get along great. Well, thank you so much for joining us on this episode. It’s been really fun. I and I appreciate your time. Well, I appreciate you so much. And thank you for having me, it was a blast. Thank you for tuning in to today’s episode of The empowered business podcast. If you were inspired by Michelle’s journey, and you’re interested in joining me inside of the empowered business lab, then the perfect place for you to start is with our passion to profit experience that is starting this coming Monday, August 23. The Passion of profit experience is meant to be an interactive event where you get to work closely with me and your peers to really discover what the perfect digital product would be for you to launch to your audience. And even if digital products are the right route for you to go in your business. So this is a perfect introductory to digital products and the way I teach and if you go through the passion to profit experience, then you can decide if the empowered business lab is right for you. Now if you want to join us, you can head on over to empowered business.co forward slash experience. I hope to see you there. Thank you for tuning in, and I’ll see you again here next week.

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