Episode 16: How to Make Email Marketing Fun and Profitable with Kate Doster

Speaker1: [00:00:00] Today, I am talking to the queen of email marketing herself, the one and only Kate Doster. Kate is the host of the Inbox bestie podcast, she’s the creator of Love Your List 2.0 email marketing MEG, of course. And she is dangerously obsessed with helping ethical entrepreneurs carve out their slice of the interweb by winning the hearts and wallets of their small but mighty audiences. Thanks to a fun email marketing, an easy yes mini offers. She believes that you don’t need to bleed the alphabet or be a dirty, rotten spam face to write emails that jolt subscribers into taking action, gobbling up your paid offers like candy or kale, if that’s your thing. And if you couldn’t tell, Kate has a way with words, which is one of the things I absolutely love about her and what makes her super good at what she does. So stay tuned Because you’re about to learn some really cool tips on how to grow and engage your own email list.

Speaker3: [00:01:01] You are listening to the Empowered Business podcast. I’m your host, Monica Froese, a mom of two and your secret weapon to creating a six figure digital product business. I’m on a mission to help 1000 women make 100000 dollars a year. That’s right. One hundred million dollars towards financial independence for women. As an online business expert, I am teaching you everything I know right here week after week so you can join us on the journey to 100 million dollars. Sound good? Then let’s jump in.

Speaker1: [00:01:44] Kate, welcome to the show!

Speaker4: [00:01:46] I’m so excited to be here!

Speaker1: [00:01:48] Everyone says that I’ve never had anyone say I’m really angry that you had me on your podcast.

Speaker4: Monica’s the worst.

 Speaker1: Maybe one day that will happen, I’ll be like, OK, maybe we’ll just not do this interview.

Speaker4: [00:02:00] They say it at the end of then sort of run away.

Speaker1: [00:02:05] So funny. OK, so I want to know about your entrepreneurial journey and what you do, why you do it, how you started, tell us all the things.

Speaker4: [00:02:14] So I started my online business because I got fired for giving birth. Straight up, terminated. Not even laid off, terminated. I can’t divulge too much information of all of this information, but it was one hundred percent legal. So my oldest just turned nine. So it’s back in 2020. And I had just started a new job in the banking industry, so I’ll give you that much. And what ended up happening is like I started at the bank and then it was like two months later we got pregnant. So I was like just shy of a year. So legally at the time and I don’t know if this has changed, they didn’t have to do anything. They considered her an illness or an injury. They fired me like I knew the firing was coming. So it was like she was due at the very end of February, beginning of March, and it was like mid February. I’m like, at work and it was just like, oh, I’ve got a phone call from corporate. It’s like I just answer it like at the front desk, like who’s to say anything? And that’s when they told me I was fired. I’m like, crying at the desk because this is my first child. Like, I don’t know how I’m going to support it. I mean, my husband and I, we were together, but we weren’t married because he was a bad dad, I don’t want to deal with having to get a divorce. Right. Like, so he’s a great dad, by the way guys, everyone, it turned out to be fantastic but you never know. And so I’m just sitting at my desk crying. My branch manager comes out, what’s going on? Like, they just fired me because I’m giving birth and she goes on the phone like their customers and it’s a big hole like it’s a to do so. Long story short, they said that I had three days to get back to work from giving birth or I was fired. They didn’t have to keep my position. They weren’t going to re-hire me. It was not a layoff. It was straight up fired. I had an emergency C-section. And after being in labor and not like eating and doing anything for thirty two hours, so like, I could not walk three days after, like it was that bad Because it was just the first Baby.

Speaker4: [00:04:14] It happens sometimes. So it’s like I would have gone back anyways after that one and I was just like screw this place. So I had never been that kid that was like selling lollipops and like super entrepreneurial, like when they had like those fundraisers were like, you know, if you sold so many things, you get different price levels. Like I would just throw away the whole catalog. I wouldn’t even tell my family that we were selling things because my mom had such a mindset issue, even though we were, I call it delightfully middle class, even though we were delightfully middle class. And she did have savings and she did have proper financial upbringing, like you were stealing people’s money, like you were bad. There was never enough. It’s like I wasn’t aware of when I know that you have as much in your savings, but that wasn’t what you want to spend it on. So it was just so much of a scarcity mindset. So it wasn’t just like, no, I’ve never had a job. No, no, no, no. Did I get in trouble at every job? Yes. Why? Because I was better than the person who was supervising me and didn’t hide it? Because we are so much alike. I always got in trouble with middle management. They don’t like it when you’re better than them, when you call them out. So they don’t like your job. Ironically, the bank job was the first time I actually had a great boss and then I got fired from corporate and she didn’t even know about it. That’s why she was so pissed. So. So that’s why

Speaker1: [00:05:30] Let me just say I’m so angry. I can’t even express the level of rage. I feel that this is still a thing. And you said your daughter was born nine years ago. This is very much still a thing unless your state has extra protection under FMLA and even FMLA, so anyone who’s not Listening in the States or maybe you’re not familiar with my family medical leave, it’s a federal policy in the United States. Unfortunately, it’s not a great one. It’s from 1993. Such a shame that 1993, like OK, maybe almost thirty years ago. But still women were working on birthing children before then and they had no protections before then. And still, there’s so many loopholes you have to have worked for twelve months for it to kick in. There’s no paid maternity leave. If you have the correct hours you can get twelve weeks unpaid With your job guaranteed. But you hadn’t hit that month. And then still lots of like corporations get out of it because there’s all these stipulations. And basically what I’m saying is the United States absolutely sucks to have kids. This is why I started redefining Mom and I’m very angry about it. OK, so we’re very angry at corporate and we’re angry about the laws that do not protect women. And now I’m going to go do something about this, as you start your own thing.

Speaker4: [00:06:44] Start mounting, so we have baby number one, we ended up getting married and have baby number two, so I had in 17 and a half months, I got fired, bought a house and had two kids. So that’s what happened. Right. But we did because my husband was in Human Services. We did end up on social services ourselves. Right. And I think that our friend Kate all has a similar story to how she started her business. There is no greater motivator like when you get on food stamps and you think to yourself, how did I get here? Now, some people I’m not saying that there’s anything wrong with it because we were on food stamps. But I’m just like to myself, I’m like, I’m college educated. I’m motivated now. I’ve got a fired on my record and I have to say it because I gave birth. And so when we sat down and ended up doing out the math before we ended up on the social services, we would lose money if I went back to work because we now had two kids to put in daycare. And we’re like, well, it makes no sense. And I’m like, I have to do something. My brain was just melting. I love my babies to death, but I’m just like, no. So I’m like, I’m going to try this online business thing. So yeah, like in college and stuff. I flipped things on eBay. I think everyone goes through that phase like designer handbags and stuff like that. You know, I kind of got over myself a little bit in college because I always worked like retail jobs and then I’d go on this corporate job and all of that. And so I started like most people do. You start a blog about things that you’re interested in and then you hang out with other online entrepreneurs. And for my particular thing, my college degree is actually in communication and psychology. And so I’ve always gotten people, and at that particular point, I did not know copywriting was a thing. I’m like, why isn’t everyone telling you everything about this? So the second I found out the copywriting actually existed, like I was all in, I could research, I could write stuff, even though your girl’s got a learning disability, but we’ll talk about that. So like, I was all in, so I went invested into an amazing copywriting course. I went, I think this is the thing that really did it besides racecourses. I was an apprentice to an actual copywriter. She would let me be like a junior copywriter. So that way, because we’re talking about this earlier, that mindset’s a thing. So that I was like, brush up my chops, see how she did it like and then it just catapulted from there.

Speaker1: [00:08:58] Define what copywriting is for anyone who’s unfamiliar with it.

Speaker4: [00:09:01] So it is copywriting with a W and I would say in the online space it’s getting paid to write words that make people slap buttons, whether it’s a buy button and whether it’s a reply button, whether it is a share button. It is the words that you’re actually writing to spark people into action. Usually it’s to sell something. But I always talk about how you’re constantly selling. You’re selling that click over to your blog post. You’re selling the click to listen to this podcast episode. Yeah. So that’s just what copywriting is. It’s writing tell a story but really writing to sell. So not with an R, I can’thelp you with trademarks

Speaker1: [00:09:36]  Because I did an episode with my lawyer too and we talked about copyrights. Even, you own the rights to your work, so you create the copyright in the sense you have the is different. And I know like sometimes I take for granted in law. I’ve been in marketing in my career too, so I’ve done it for so long that sometimes I say things I think everyone knows and then you come find out they don’t. Ok, so you started a blog that was like a lifestyle blog and then you started apprenticing under an actual copywriter and this is how you got started with copywriting. OK, so then, um,

Speaker4: [00:10:06] So I loved working for her. I know that most people would be like, oh well she would make so much money off of like the words, but like I needed those training wheels. I was really nice. But her is you’ll find a lot of the online space. I would say it’s insidious. But, you know, like coaches are coaching coaches that our coaching coaches and it’s like, you know what I mean? It’s that sort of cycle. So what I love about her is we did have some other online entrepreneurs that we wrote copy for, but she also wrote for like actual corporations. There is law firm stuff. It was really fun. And so then from there I branched out and felt like comfortable doing my own thing. And she was really supportive, too. She always let me have my own clients and then her stuff as well. So I really, really loved that. So then when I was a copywriter, I would do like everything. So being like home pages about pages, which I will never write those again, ever. But when you are a copywriter with a W, you have to try on these. Do you like web copy pages about pages, Bergomi pages, do you love long form sales pages. Those are those ones I like. We have to go on forever and ever and ever and ever. Never. The stuff that I love doing the most relending, pages and launch copy that is just email was just the thing that I loved so much because you could tell a story over a span of emails. It was very much about human and buyer psychology. You could be yourself in that like it was just at what was your degree? And my degree is in communication and psychology.

Speaker1: [00:11:31] Ok, when I started online, it’s funny because my corporate career, half of it was in marketing, wasn’t foreign concept. I mean, I would actually say that one of the reasons I succeeded online was because of my background in corporate. Marketing, understanding, return on investment in our Y, you know, like a lot of people come into the online world and don’t understand that stuff, but one of the things I always struggled with, I feel like I’m a very literal person that’s going to tell it like it is. You tell it like it is to, but you weave it so much better. It’s like you’re like a magical storyteller in the psychology stuff. Always tripped me out, like I read some books like The Power of Persuasion and I just couldn’t figure out how to, like, think about, like, weave it into my writing. I guess it never clicked for me. So tell us the psychology principles that you use when you’re writing your emails.

Speaker4: [00:12:15] So you’re going to actually find this to a lot of people who are copywriters or who are great at writing copy. They tend to be from the art meaning, like they’re screenwriters, they’re actors. I was in Musical theater like the entire time I was in high school, college, all of that sort of stuff. And I think the reason why we end up being such great collaborators is because we can get into the mind of people like so well and we can write the way that people talk. Think about it. Have you ever watched a movie? You’re like this. Writing is bad and it’s not even because the storyline is like super thin. But you’re like people don’t talk like that. And so that was my hobby was just like, oh, like I know how to write lines of dialog. Like, that’s fine, we can do that. And so that’s all that really that writing was. So when you sit down to write an email or even a landing page, honestly, this can be for anything that you’re writing that you want people to do something. You just kind of think to yourself, what are they actually thinking about right now and how does a human brain work? So for email in particular, why do people check their email? They go there to be entertained. They’re going there because they are supposed to be posting on Instagram and they didn’t. They were supposed to be watching their kids, but their show was really boring that they’re watching. There was supposed to be doing other things, but they came to their inbox to escape. That’s the only reason anyone’s going there. So when you know, human intent, which is really important, it’s kind of like my greatest prank ever. I was in high school and my boyfriend at the time was speeding sometimes. And when he wasn’t looking, I slipped in one of my lemon Skittles. So then he wasn’t paying attention. And so he goes to eat this. Eminem gets Eminem and it’s going to be the biggest fight ever because it’s yellow. And he wasn’t paying attention, human intent matters. He was very, very like this happens to everyone.

Speaker4: [00:14:04] Imagine you all just like, cringe. Oh, my God, I know that feeling. So when people are going especially to write emails and they’re going in and they’re just full of stopping people with like all of this like cut/dry stuff and like a million tips to do things, people are going there for that. Their brains not turned on. That’s better as a blog post, as a video, as a lesson. And of course, they’re going there to get entertained and get a quick win and feel good about themselves. So when you go in there with that mentality, it’s like, oh, OK. So like, I can give them one way that they can use their cricut. So it’s not just collecting dust, that thing that makes crafts. But then I’m going to be like and for for more ways to get your five hundred dollars worth click here. I don’t know how much they cost. I just have students that do cricut. I’m assuming that they’re astronomical. But you would know if you could think to yourself, OK, I help people with crafts. I know this machine is expensive. I know that people are going to feel bad if they don’t lose it, when all of a sudden you can actually talk about what their physical space is looking like, this cricut in the corner and they feel bad that it’s there all of a sudden. Now Monica is the coolest and now I don’t need to feel like a loser with my cricut anymore and then they’re going to go in. So that’s really a sort of that psychology of like, how can I give them a little burst of entertainment? And it can be something like, hey, does you know, it’s national, take a walk and then you can just like spin it into whatever you were talking about. Just like walking is a really great way to get in some exercise. So is casually emailing your list about blank or so. Is this how you can make some parallels, chiller stuff like did you know that eighty percent of crafters are left handed? I’ll throw it in there, like make sure it’s a real stat. Then all of a sudden It’s like, oh, this is so interesting.

Speaker4: [00:15:46] Even if you’re just telling them about a blog post that you have or if you’re telling them to go over to a sales page or to register for a webinar, it just gives their brain a little something. And now it doesn’t have to be as long drawn out story about how your sad and depressed and you hated everything and your kids hated you and you hate your husband and your house is gross. But then you’ve got this cricut and mysteriously crafting just open up the world to you! You don’t have to be that grandiose about it, It’s OK.

Speaker1: [00:16:09] Ok, so I have so many questions for you. Is there a formula that you use when you’re writing your launch copy

Speaker4: [00:16:15] So the launch can be is sort of a trail of what a human brain goes through to make a buying decision at the very beginning. There’s usually going to be some type of launch trigger, as we call it. Some it’s a symbol as an email. But for most people, there’s going to be a webinar, a challenge or even like a freebie that sort of kicks off your internal email only launch that you’re going to have. So that’s like the first thing if you do have something particularly like a webinar and. Second email, you’re going to want to make sure that people are actually watching the replay, even if it’s an auto webinar, if it’s definitely a live one, that sort of first email after your live one is going to be there. But then you’re also going to mention my pay attention to slide number five, because you’re going to learn how Monica was able to increase or click through rate by twenty five percent. Right. So now all of a sudden you’re giving them A reason like, oh, well, what is inside? Twenty five, you’re playing off a human tendencies of curiosity. Right. And spoiler Monica could be your student. That had an amazing result. And then it’s like, oh it’s inner core. So she talks about that.

Speaker1: [00:17:16] So that’s curiosity, OK,

Speaker4: [00:17:18] Because we just want people to get there. Yeah. And again, no spoiler alert. You’re not the center of the universe that might not read all of your emails, but you can at least sort of write this out like it is one. So then the next one, when it’s just like you really want them to know that the car is open, obviously you’re going to tell them that the car is open. But you also want to acknowledge the fact and this is what makes my opening car so much different than everybody else’s. I think this is why listing’s get such high results is we make it about the person and what the person has done to try to get the results before we always sort of pat our person on the back. Like in my case, like I know that you have been blogging till your fingers turn blue. I know that if you could just give your first born to Zuckerberg, some days you think about it just to be able to grow your audience. And this is right. So you talk about some really concrete things to do this, pat them on the back. But the reason why this didn’t work is because you didn’t have this or you didn’t have that, which is why in the course that is now opened, we’re going to tackle this, this and you’re going to avoid that. So it’s always sort of bringing it back to life. Yeah, you’re so well, here’s the the missing piece that you had. And, oh, look, my course isn’t the missing piece. It’s the thing that’s going to get you the missing piece. And then they’re like, oh, my goodness, they have my best interests in heart. And then like, yeah. So that’s like there. And then you’re going to go ahead. And throughout the rest of emails, you’re thinking to yourself, different people, they buy with feelings and justify with logic. Later, you’ve got to think to yourself, OK, we’ll get our logic emails out of the way, like the frequently asked questions, the what’s included. But with your frequently asked questions, it just can’t be like, how do I get my downloads? Do I have lifetime access?

Speaker4: [00:18:53] That’s a buyers question. So those have to be a little bit lower on the page. What you’re really going to start in those first things are those excuses. We call the sir mix a lot principal, because just like sir mix a lot likes big butts so does your email list and so does your wallet. Right. So everything well is. Yeah. But that people have about actually doing what your product is going to help them with. Yeah. I’d like to eat better but it’s expensive. Yeah. I like to meal plan and this one’s really good but by Friday everything is gross so I don’t eat it. Yeah. You know what I mean. So you’re going to sort of think about those. So that’s, those are those sort of top frequently asked questions that you’re going to have at the very top of even at your sales page. And even in that email up cycle, everything everybody objections.

Speaker1: [00:19:34] You use the question

Speaker4: [00:19:35] Over the box. You have those basic questions of how do you get that’s how long you have it, all that sort of stuff. So then it’s like, oh, how do they know that? I had all of these questions that I had? And it’s like, well, now I’m going to go for it. So after you have that, it’s sort of thinking to yourself those last couple of days of the launch, instead of really leaning into the scarcity and urgency, which, yes, your discount is going to go away, the doors are going to close. Maybe you’re just not going to talk about this product in a while. But that has to be secondary. It’s why would somebody think to themselves, yeah, Monica could do it, but I can’t. And then those are the like pull out like one at a time that you’re just going to sort of address. And then my last, like, last chance emails are just really funny because my brand is fun and feel like I’m going to be like, yeah, it’s last minute one, but like we have I’m not going to give it away, guys, in case you ever hear one. But like, I usually make my last chance emails like a trivia based one because it’s like really fun. I’m like, let’s play a game.

Speaker1: [00:20:30] Ok, so let’s back up a little bit here, because you were apprenticing with this copywriter. You were offering copywriting as a service for a while. You were actually writing other people’s launch copies, doing their sales pages. How long were you acting as a service provider before you took the leap into digital products?

Speaker4: [00:20:47] I think it was about three, four years.

Speaker1: [00:20:50] OK, so your big course is, Love Your List. I bought it and I confess I have not gone through everything, but I never consume everything I store about it. But my employees do because I also don’t write much of my sales copy anymore. Like that’s the beauty of having employees. So I give them the resources that I used to take. But anyways, I’ve been through enough of your stuff to know. It is phenomenal. I have taken all the things like many people in the online world who have been in the online world for a long time. I have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars, probably honestly, if I added it up in quickbooks. It’s disgusting how much money I’ve spent on different courses and stuff in yours is one of the best. So you walk the walk, you did it for people. What made you decide you want to start teaching?

Speaker4: [00:21:33] I wanted to help more people and I felt like having clients while I liked it, because it sort of keeps you on the pulse of what’s going on? I hate deadlines just straight Up, I hate deadlines, I hate them. I’m not a type A personality. So like I always hated, like in the back of my mind was like, I’m lying awake. It’s like that when I due this time and this one is due that time and all of this sort of stuff. And I’m like, if I have my own course, then technically I’m the only one with the due dates. And the great thing about digital products, once you create it, yes, obviously you’re always going to want to iterate it, but like it’s done. So I made a very bad mistake. I’ll be honest with you. And it almost broke me. I always felt at the time I almost wanted to go work at McDonalds. I had a good cut off all of the copywriting clients. I know I probably should have kept one, but I was like, no, I’m burning all the bridges. So this was in twenty eighteen. That’s why I had to do the math for the grading because I secretly I think I ended up towards the end of the year taking two, but it was twenty eighteen. I was like, no, I’m not going to do them anymore. It’s the worst. The thing is, is that when you have a service based model, everyone, your audience grows and your income grows. Tactics are completely different than when you’re selling digital products. It just is. So even though I always have a logical result and people are like, you mean how much money from how many people like you still need more people? But it’s just like did not dawn on me, even though I knew this, because, you know, you’re in the inside of people’s businesses. So go ahead. We presell the course. It does exceptionally well. GDPR comes out and nobody knows how to deal with it. None of the tech companies know how to deal with it. None of the lawyers know how to come up. Nobody knows a goddamn thing.

Speaker4: [00:23:15] Right. So, again, I had already gotten rid of all of my clients. I had no tech support, no legal support. People were worried about this thing that my grandmother got sick. And you guys know when you’re at a certain level in your business, people still just think that you just sit at home. So when you’re the only one with not a real job, oh, I’m going to go ahead right now. And I had presold the course. Right. And I was going to do it like live like it was like a all week. So like we got like the first two out then GDPR is like a thing and no one can do anything with it. But my grandmother got sick, then she dies. It was like the Perfect storm of, like, awful you pass for it was like three months and I got this massive anxiety attack. Things weren’t out there. I mean, people were really nice about it. Right. But like, we literally ended up surviving because, like, I just told everyone, I was just like, I can give you back your money if you just want it and you’re done with it because you can’t wait for me because I’m like, I just can’t deliver right now. You can let me keep all of it and you’ll just hang on till it comes. Or you can do a half and half. And I think we only had like two people that had actually asked for their money back. And then one person actually end up revising the course last year, which I thought was interesting. She had to pay much, much more than my whole family had survived on the tripwire sales of my email templates because it was already done. So everything right. And again, my audience growth still wasn’t super huge, but because our conversion rates were so high, it would just keep on going and going. So that was the only time where it’s like, I’ve got this course, I owe this money for people. I had had a lot of money mindset issues. And this is why I don’t think enough people talk about when they go services to courses when you’re physically doing something like I had no problem charging a crap ton because I was physically writing, but because I was not physically delivering anything anymore, it was like terribly underpriced.

Speaker4: [00:25:03] It still is technically terribly underpriced. But we’ve done things to rectify that over the years. So it’s terribly underpriced because I had felt so guilty. I’m like, well, but I’m not actually doing this.

Speaker1: [00:25:14] But in hindsight, though, hindsight’s twenty twenty. But the biggest, craziest things I did actually gave me the most momentum. Like in hindsight you’re like, wow, I’ll give you up. Those clients were kind of nuts. However, had you not, maybe you wouldn’t be where you are today because that fear of needing to get something to work, there’s like nothing else like it. Like when I quit my corporate job and I didn’t have the blog built up yet to replace my corporate salary and my corporate salary Paid bills, my husband thought I was off my rocker. He just thought I was crazy. But looking back, I never would have gotten as far as I did because I needed the time and attention to give to it. So it was a huge risk. But then the fire under my butt, because it had to work. I always say I don’t do failure. Failure is not an option. So I had to replace my corporate salary. I did within five months, which is not an easy feat. And I certainly don’t think I would have done it if I were still in corporate cause I had that, like, cushion. Like your clients were cushions for you essentially.

Speaker4: [00:26:12] Yeah. At that point I ended up being the sole breadwinner because my husband’s job, they had shut down and relocated, but because I was making so much and again before this, he was not making a lot at all. So I was making way more than he was making at his job, being a copywriter. So he just stayed home to be with the kids so I can have more copywriting clients. So at this point, it was like all the revenue sources, except for like a couple of small things were like literally like supporting the whole family. Mentally, like I just I couldn’t do it and then, it was really ironic, the book that turned to things around like start on the upward trajectory, the lady from the office, then the place the secretary, Pam has a book about acting. And for some reason she had talks about auditions and maybe was the musical theater person in my head. But it was just like talking about how you go, you do these things. So that way you just have a collective body of work. I’m like, this is just like my collective body of work. Even if the lessons that I put out because I had still owed some lessons. And like even if some Of these lessons are awful or they’re not up to the standards, I want to be like Ira Glass. When you have great taste, you don’t want to do stuff that doesn’t. So you don’t do anything. I’m like, I’m going to do it. So I put out because people really like to watch it again. Watch it again and again. Reiterate it. Reiterate it. That’s why it’s globulus 2.0 3.0 is probably coming out at some point over this year as well. But it was just like the best thing ever.

Speaker1: [00:27:32] I love that. The moral of the story is it doesn’t have to be perfect, which is a huge mindset issue. My students run into all the time. 

Speaker4: [00:27:39] Just be honest.

Speaker1: [00:27:40] Yeah, exactly. Oh my gosh. When I had the Pinterest ad course, the first iteration of that course makes me laugh a little bit. I mean, it was nothing like what it ended as. And I built it, like you did. I built into my third trimester. I was I don’t know what I was thinking then, you know. But then again, that’s a fire, right? I had a deadline. This thing had to get out the door. I was going to birth a child and she didn’t have an option. She had to come out. So the course had to be done and it lit a fire. And I just did it. You know what? I just kept Iterating and iterating and iterating and get better and better. And then you get momentum. But I will say I feel like I didn’t know who you were, and then all of a sudden everyone knew who you were. It was very strange how you kind of came into this little I called our blogging bubble. There’s like a blogging bubble I kind of feel like where the rest of the world doesn’t know about it. But when you’re in it, it’s like it’s an interesting thing online. So one day you just like we’re there, everyone was talking about your course. Honestly, that’s what it felt like. I had no idea who you were. And then there you were. And I think when I didn’t buy it right away, I know I didn’t buy it right away because I kept telling myself I don’t need more programs anymore, more programs. But of course, I got sucked in because I was talking about it and I’m glad I did. But I want to try and figure out what was it that put you on the map, because did you feel like that’s what it was like? You were, like, not known. And then all of sudden like people are talking about you all the time. That’s how it felt like to me.

Speaker4: [00:29:04] You would think it sounds odd. There’s two things we’re going to get concrete. So you would think that like the blogging sphere and like the online like courses like Coaches’ World would have a lot of overlap, but they actually really don’t.

Speaker1: [00:29:17] I agree.

Speaker4: [00:29:17] Bloggers and online entrepreneurs keep themselves very, very separate, which is why when I’m using examples like I’ll use two different like big name courses, we won’t name them here, but you guys can figure it out. We’re like business owners tend to go to one that sort of rhymes with that letter and then other people go to something that Is neat, If you know what I’m talking. So they leave themselves very, very separate. So I always wrote for online entrepreneurs. I did a summit with my friend out of the room about Eden. I met Eden Fried, everybody. Oh, I’m doing her summit this year. Yeah, me too. We met, I think, through one of her friends. So anyways, we had met somehow and I did her summit and somebody who is in the blogging space runs like a really big blogging Facebook group. She was also at the summit. She’d watch my presentation and she just loved it. So then she bought the email marketing fairy. Yeah, it’s Carly, and she bought the email marketing fairy. And so then like when the Love Your List came out, it was the first second iteration. So I think it had been 2019. So then she bought it. And around that same time I had Kate from Simple Media. I love Kate from Simple Pin Media. And I said to myself, mindset, guys, I would love to be on her podcast. I’m like out of the blue. I’m like, one day I’m like, I’m going to pitch her to be on her podcast. So when you pick someone to be on anyone’s podcast, especially unsolicited, it’s probably not the best idea. So don’t all go pitch, Kate, when you’re going to pitch anybody to do anything for you that probably this know who you are. I always made it about her audience. Again, knowing human psychology works, I made sure that the subject line was really catchy. It was Pinterest to PayPal in five minutes. I could back that up because Pinterest is one of my PayPal sources and I would make all these tripwire sales from nobody who knew anything about me. Right. They wrote a blog post and they were mine forever. That was like the subject line.

Speaker4: [00:31:03] I talked about how great she was. I talk about different episodes that she had and how this could be like a great one. In fifteen minutes she replied and said yes. So this goes for anyone. And I’m not just saying like, oh, go in and pitch Kate, because it could be different. Now, maybe she has the cape guard up. But like, again, when you know actual people, you know the things that they do, you know, Where there are holes and certain things like and I think that even brought up like the last time she had talked about email to, like, prove I’m not just some random rando who’s just like blind pitching everybody. So Carly happened, Kate happened. And then I think that that’s when the blogging world sort of learns about Kate, because from both of them, it just Sort of like all the bloggers found out, oh,

Speaker1: [00:31:42] This is.A really important lesson, so I totally agree that The worlds are separate, and I know that might sound funny if you’re not online business, I have always have feet in both. So I started in the blogging world, but I always consume high level coaching in the online Entrepreneur space. And I think my business background lent more towards the online entrepreneur space. So I’ve always it’s very interesting. These world oftentimes people don’t know each other in the two different, but I’ve always had a foot need. It’s just it’s always been a funny thing for me. But one of the things that You said here, and it’s so funny because when you were talking, I remember that podcast Episode with Kate that is actually I bought your trip wire from her show, notes that I bought your course. So that’s what tipped me over. But I knew about you from Carly. But what’s really important here, I think that you said and this happened to me, too, when you specialize in something like you chose email marketing before I retired, I Chose Pinterest advertising. We focused solely on that. Right. You’re like the email marketing girl. I was the Pinterest ads girl. And what happens is, is that it makes you more referable all put me on the map, because she had at the time one of the biggest blogging Pinterest presence. I mean, I would argue she still does, but more people come into the space and she found me and she’s like, I don’t want to talk about Pinterest, that she invited me to talk and it put me on the map. And so it’s like the power of connection when that one Person endorses you. I was the person that trained her team originally. We did a zoom training and that one connection, I would argue, made my business like that’s where my momentum came from. Never underestimate the power. I pooh poohed networking so bad in corporate. I hated it. And I came to realize that what I thought I hated about networking was that I just didn’t like what I was doing in corporate. When you like what you’re doing and you’re passionate about what you’re doing and you’re good at what you’re doing, networking is kind of easy.

Speaker4: [00:33:31] That’s what I think. And I also think that in order to get known and this is what I would tell my students, and I think it’s probably the same thing to yours. I’m like, you got to roads. It’s collaboration or ads. That’s it. That’s it. You’ve got to basically organic social media, sort of like reels because Instagram is pushing it. Whatever the new thing is that Instagram is doing, that’ll give you some visibility like everything else is not going get you there, guys. That’s it. I’m very personable person. I like to think I’m a good interviewer and a very entertaining again fallback and all the skills that you’re like, oh, this came in handy. Thank you ninth grade Kate. That’s when I was there. Like I really liked personality. I love what you had to say. So I know that talking and getting in front of crowds is like my golden ticket. We’re taking another course right now and they call it the queen bee role. I’m like, that’s it. I like if I open my mouth, like, not sound conceited, but I’m going to, people buy because that’s the best way I communicate. So for you, you might be like the key. I’m a writer. Well, then if you are great at writing and you love blog posting, then go be a guest blogger, get in front of people. But I know my medium was talking so it was Summit and Podcasts.

Speaker1: [00:34:34] You know, Podcast. I was on so many podcasts. I had goal podcasts I wanted to be on from two thousand fifteen that I finally got on in like two thousand nineteen twenty twenty. It was like one of those things I just kind of put out in the universe, like I would binge listen to podcasts and think man, if I ever get on this podcast one day I’m going to have made it and then I got on it. And you know what it was because I put myself in the right rooms. I reached out to these people like the one podcast I got on. I got on because we joined the same program And we were in Boston and I was like, I’m sitting next to her. This is like what I’m doing. And I remember telling her I listen to all your episodes, like I love your podcast. And then she invited me on and I was like, oh, my dream came true because I put myself in that position, said at the right table and open myself up to the opportunity. I’m sure you see this with your students. Let’s talk about mindset real quick. Mmhm. I did not realize for years when I was teaching Pinterest ads to me was a literal topic, like your ads are doing well. If they’re not, it’s all database. You know, you read your data. I didn’t understand that mindset was so important. But it is. And people are afraid of selling. They’re afraid of talking about their product. They’re afraid of putting themselves out there. And I always say, like, if you’re not even willing to tell your best friend about the product, you just create it. Why do you think anyone’s going to buy it? Like, you have to talk about your stuff? Mindset It’s a huge issue. So how do you address that with your students?

Speaker4: [00:35:52] So it is ginormous and it is the thing that I know that we had talked about like pivotal moments like obviously like in Carly and Kate, like that sort of thing and just collaboration’s and just you keep on going and then you have a great thing and people get results. So that also helps as well. But what really, really helped and what was the big difference, in my opinion, from love your list, to love your list 2.0  find out what’s incorporating that mind set piece. Because like we talked about, I can tell you, like contractions, think about the things that would prevent people from buying. But like, if you’re not actually going to hit send and you come at this with like a scarcity mindset or the who of my mindset, like you get in your way, it’s not going to work. The pitch works because, yes, I knew her people, but I actually had fun. So that’s why literally the first thing that we have everybody do being on my list is a privilege, and when you get people in that mindset of like being on my list is a privilege, all of a sudden they’re not as afraid to send an email and get three people to unsubscribe because it’s like, OK, like, who cares? I can’t help them. Like, they can leave. Being on my list is a privilege. It does not matter. And so, like, when you want to do this, like people get to pay me money, like, that’s just It. They get to pay me money. So I think that everyone one hundred percent, you need to find the mindset person usually for us in the online business space, regardless if you’re teaching Consumers or if you’re teaching other business owners is like a money mindset and sales mindset, like hands down, you’ve got to find the person that works. Some people really like Denise Duffield Thomas. Another one is Jen something with an ass? I can’t remember something she has that you’re a bad ass and making money. So yeah, some people would really like her, my oddball, whatever. Like I’m the dorkiest white chick ever. Like this is just me, theater nerd chick, Amanda Francis. Amanda Francis is like Gucci bag, blond hair, Malibu Barbie.

Speaker4: [00:37:43] You would never think that the two of us would mess so if working well together. But Amanda was just a and you’re going to find that person. And for some people it’s me. And that’s why we’re incorporating more mindset stuff and might do some more mindset’s stuff like different programs down the road. This just like money mindset, but it’s like you’ve got to find that person that you’re just like it works. It just does. And like when you start going in with that attitude of like it’s good or when you had said that line, if you want to tell your best friend about it, why wouldn’t somebody buy it? My first initial thought is they’re not going to tell their best friends because they’re going to be afraid their best friend is going to judge them. Oh, that’s exactly what it’s a mindset thing. Or they’re going to be like, this is stupid. How dare you? It’s never going to work. Like, I can’t tell you how many students are just like and this is also why I think people really have email, because it’s a lot harder for friends, family if your kids teacher to like, find and get onto your email list than to see that you posted something bold on Facebook right after you get to be yourself a little bit more, you get to grow that muscle a little bit more. So we do a lot of that and then we actually back it up because like I said, I like to do both mindset and actual stuff like actual statistics and the way the human brain works. If somebody pays for something, they are going to take it seriously. Again, this is why and it’s the same example you might have heard me say before. That’s why the coach purse is in its dustbag used to be called the wedding bag it can’t go anywhere. Right. But like, it’s nice. It’s fine. My actual purse from Target, I don’t care, but it’s the bathroom floor. It’s over there. The other day there was like an applesauce packet, like, I don’t care. It’s fine. Like, it doesn’t matter. I spent fifteen dollars on it.

Speaker4: [00:39:21] Who cares. But the one that was two hundred dollars is like the same thing with information. I’m not saying don’t give away information for free, but if you want to guarantee that people will take things more seriously, put a price tag on it because they’re going to get their money’s worth.

Speaker1: [00:39:36] And on the flipside to What you know, should always be free. Like I always say, to be in business, money has to exchange hands. And if you’re giving everything away for free and money is on exchanging hands, you don’t actually have a business, you have a hobby, and that’s fine. But every time you want to grow a business but you’re unwilling to ask for money is the problem. I asked you before we start recording, and this is how I want to go out because so many of my students also have trouble getting emails. Like I just recorded a podcast before this with Someone who had an email list in a year and a half. And when she finally did, she made a sale on the very first email because it was like, what’s the worst that can happen here to get unsubscribes? And so I said that to you before you start recording. And I said, what would be your advice to someone who’s sitting there who has an email and started growing it, but they’re afraid to email? What should they do right now?

Speaker4: [00:40:25] Realize that it’s a mindset issue Literally tell yourself that being on your list is a privilege. Right. And then for this particular email, what you’re going to send them, I’m going to tell you the first email you’re going to send if you have emails and forever, it’s going to be three apps, three books, three things that’s going to help them with the stuff that you talk about. Three apps for saving time, three apps for self care that actually work, three apps. It’ll get you meditating, whatever it is. And that’s going to be the main part of your email that you’re going to talk about is these three apps, then human nature. They’re like, who the hell is this person? How do they get my email address? That’s what you’re going to answer in the second one. You are never going to start off that coming back from retirement email going, oh, sorry, I haven’t emailed you forever. Oh that happened and this happened. They forgot you exist so they don’t care about your life story at this point, even if it is really, really riveting, what is in it for them? So that’s why you’re going to have those three apps, because people love to buy stuff. They can be salty, but they love to buy stuff. The three best things you can get on

Speaker1: [00:41:22] Amazon. Now, you cannot send your Amazon affiliate links in that email. But again, Things. Stuff that People have. And then literally The sentence wondering how I got your email address in the first place. Well, it’s because you signed up for and the name, your freebie name or blog name, the thing that they want to account for and then literally invite them to unsubscribe. But if your house already looks like a showroom on Pinterest. Click here to unsubscribe. No hard feelings, but if you stick around in the next email and then talk about what you’re going to say in your next email, bingo bango. The only thing that was holding you back from emailing them was being afraid. Nothing. The police are not going to come after you because somebody unsubscribed or sent you a mean letter. And one of the favorite things that we’ll do in the Love Your List Facebook group is laugh. When people send you mean replies. I know it’s a really big trend right now on IG Reels is like the turning mean comments into inspirational captions.

Speaker4: [00:42:17] Laugh And I don’t care, Michael, I’m not for you next. Yeah.

Speaker1: [00:42:22] Also recognize that many emails are almost always about them. It’s not that you shouldn’t be open to constructive criticism. We all want to do better in our businesses and stuff like that. But there’s a big difference between someone being mean and giving constructive criticism. I’ve had men email me, tell me that I have to change my brand colors because they’re too girly. And I’m like, first of all, you clearly don’t know me. Like, if you’ve been following me, you know that I do not listen to anyone like this is why I do my own thing. But like, you are certainly not going to come in here and tell me to change my brand colors, like, who are you? I had crazy emails, I will tell you that. And honestly, the more you get, the more you’re kind of like this is not a problem with me. Like this Is this is a problem they’re having.

Speaker4: [00:43:00] Well, here, here’s the thing. And this all comes back to mindset. Being on your list is a privilege. I spend a lot of emails. I spend a lot of sales emails. Like that’s my thing. That’s what I do. Right? We I’m gone three last year. One of them is just like your voice is annoying. It’s like, oh, well, you suck my butt. Like it was somebody like saying like, I can’t believe that you say the word homeslice. I’m like, how did this lady get in here? Like, that’s what I’m mad at.  I’m not mad because like they’re saying like mean things to me. I’m like, cool, who let them in my world in the first place. Like I am not energetically available for this. I’m like, I’ll go look like obviously unsubscribe then like I don’t care. I’m not done. So you’re blocked from everything. What do you do, sign up for that. They were unaware that this is how I am, like I said, everything. So that’s always what I matter. I’m not mad at. The person will laugh at them. When you first get them, you’re allowed to have a five minute human experience. But then you need to ask yourself how did they actually get allowed in here? Because being on my list is a privilege and did not pass vibe check. So they do not get to be in. And then like you go in, you like answer it like things as you say. I like this particular free. You’re like all of that. Some people are just trolls redefining bong. It wasn’t even your name like.

Speaker1: [00:44:08] Well that was my main brand name for. Oh yeah. And I would get mad that were mad at me about it. And it’s like what. Like this doesn’t make any sense and by no means I have guys in my programs I welcome them in. It’s not saying that guys can’t join, but you also can’t tell me how to market like that’s not the way this works.

Speaker4: [00:44:27] What somebody was like. Got a reply back hundred emails and they’re like, go back to just being a mom or something. Oh, don’t like she, she couldn’t handle it. I’m over here like I don’t think I can say this podcast of my response to her with but she just went off on them. I’m like, oh they feel the nomination for that. And then insert main thing here committee. Oh too bad for them. Delete blocked like you are not getting my time. She’s like I had to reply.

Speaker1: [00:44:54] In the early days I got a lot of hate for working which was crazy. So I wrote an article back in the day for our scary mommy, which maybe in hindsight I shouldn’t have done. But it was early on and I was just trying to get, you know, scary mommy was a really big site and more popular than it is now, I think. And I wrote an article about working mom guilt, and it was all about why you shouldn’t have working mom. It was actually a very positive article for working moms, but they found the title to pretty much stay at home moms and working moms, which I’m very against, Because I think we have the right to decide if we want to be a stay at home mom or working mom. And neither is right or wrong. It’s just your decision. It should be your decision. No one should be forced into either. Of course, in the world that we live in, sometimes people are forced to be at home because they can’t afford daycare or some people are forced to work because they can’t afford the Food on the table. That’s a different Scenario. But someone in your life shouldn’t come to you and be like, I refuse to let you work like that shouldn’t be a thing. If you want to work, you should be able to work. So anyways, they spun the title And of course, people only read the title. They didn’t read the article. This Facebook thread blew up. People are telling me that I should give my kids up for adoption and that I don’t love them all from the title that I didn’t even create. And it was insane. Like I wanted to give up online stuff at that point because it was the worst of humanity in these comments. And I think that was like

Speaker4: [00:46:18]  I just laugh. I’m like, oh, I’m not going to swear guys this we’re not going to the end. This podcast, like, how pathetic and sad does there have to be? Does they have to be recreationally angry? Now, maybe this comes from the fact that I had a hippie mom, even though she had a scarcity mindset issues, but was like, here are the best ever, like a lot of positive reinforcement. Like any of that. I came to the eighties. Right. I’m just like, how sad is your life have to be? That’s how you get off. So that’s why you should just laugh at people, but I can see being in that situation, like especially when you’re vulnerable and it wasn’t even your fault.

Speaker1: [00:46:48] Yeah, I’ve come to learn that the people who are nasty on that thread probably were forced into doing something that they didn’t want to do. Maybe they were stay at home moms, but they really didn’t want to be. And they had to find ways to justify that for themselves. Or maybe they were working and are constantly gone and they wish that they had a career that didn’t keep them away from their kids as much. And so they are taking it out of me. Whatever it was, my story had nothing to do with it. It was all like their unhappiness. That’s a hard thing to come to realize when people are attacking you for something that was so like not your intent at all. That was what Facebook ended up banning the article too. It got so bad. There were so many reports. It was that was like my first viral experience was a very positive experience, but it was

Speaker4: [00:47:31] A viral experience. Like what is scary, mommy say like where they just like, oh, Monica, did they just leave you out to dry?

Speaker1: [00:47:39] Scary. Mommy didn’t step in and they just let the thread. They wanted the traffic. Oh yeah. It just blew up that they knew from a business perspective they were smart. They knew pitting moms against each other, which is one of the worst things that we do as women, by the way, like it drives me nuts. Pitting women against each other, unfortunately, is big traffic driver for them. And so that’s what they did. They basically used my content to do that.

Speaker4: [00:48:03] And that really sucks. But that’s not the way you wrote it. I mean, like you didn’t write it to be condescending. I guarantee you, nothing in the article is condescending.

Speaker1: [00:48:09] Oh, not at all. Because Redefining Mom started as a working mom blog. And I was always, from day one, very, very clear that just because this is a working mom blog doesn’t mean I have anything against stay at home moms. Personally, I never wanted to be a stay at home mom. Like, it just doesn’t fit my personality. Same, I would be miserable and honestly, I wouldn’t be the best version. I think I’ve come to learn in motherhood that I am the best mom for my kids. I’m very confident in that, like I am the mom that they were meant to have and that mom wasn’t a mom that was going to not work, for me personally. I’m a well rounded person. When I’m working, I lack patience if I’m with my kids 24/7, I’m not the nicest because of it and I’m fine with that. Like I am the mom that they need me to be. Like, that’s just how I feel about it. And I never want anyone to think I’m judging their choices. Unfortunately, I feel like a lot of judging goes on and I don’t. Yeah. 

Speaker4: [00:49:01] More power to them. Like you go like if you love being a stay at home mom, like that’s her thing. And like you’re all about that stuff. Like I absolutely heart you for that. It’s not the way that I am. Just like not everybody likes the same type of music. Like it’s OK. It’s like there’s nothing against anything like you go!

Speaker1: [00:49:18] My free Facebook group back in the day I shut down because when I decided to stop breastfeeding my second, which was I can it was a very heroing thing for me to do. I will say polarizing. It was a lot. I mean, mentally, it was an emotionally it was very rough on me. I made it nine months and I was actually very proud of myself. I had made a comment about how I was meaning and I got attacked really bad in my own Facebook group. And I was just like, I don’t need this in my life. This is crazy! Like, even if I had never breast fed, who cares? Like, why are people attacking me? It was just it kind of blew my mind. That was my second experience, I would say, with negativity with motherhood online. And I just shut down the group. I said, you know, this is not welcome in my life. I’m not welcoming this kind of criticism over my choice. And because of that, my mental health with my baby’s health first.

Speaker4: [00:50:12] But just it it baffles my mind if I lose my mind. I’m just like, what? And I’m sure I’m going to have any scandals. I’m like, I’ve got none I don’t like. I think it’s because I try very hard in the first three minutes. Either, you know you love me or you’re just like, nope, that’s. And then you just like ignore. I’m like, I don’t even entertain that energy. But like people know where I stand on controversy because, like, I’m not hiding it. Like, y’all know, like this is it.

Speaker1: [00:50:35] As you go, you learn, you know, in the beginning, you don’t know these things. Like, I never would have thought that how I said my baby was going to be like a topic of conversation, that people were going to have opinions on how my baby was, that it’s like, what? This is my child. Why are you having all these opinions about it? You learn and now I don’t welcome it. Like we recognize the negativity for what it is. And I’m just like you. We cut it off, we unsubscribe. It’s like we don’t need that. Right, we’re

Speaker4: [00:50:58] Done. But like, you can’t let that fear of negativity stop you from helping the people that need to hear from you. This is why you cannot let that fear of not sending that email because you haven’t sent that email or that fear of that sales message. Maybe Jane really does need to kick in. The seven dollars is going to get her to actually start budgeting again because you’re afraid that Sandy could be like, how dare you charge for this? You’re going to deny somebody else a chance of help, get over yourself like the mindset, attitude, different ways. They’re I’m not going to let them stop me from my mission. What is putting money in the hands of good people so they can do good with it? Period. It’s not going to happen. So do not let those few people who are going. You complain, keep you from being able to help people. It’s just not happening. We don’t do that anymore.

Speaker1: [00:51:48] One of my favorite coaches that I’ve ever had would have heard things just like how you’re like it’s a privilege to be on my list when rehearsing this. Stay out of other people’s wallets. So her thing is she has a high ticket program. It’s very expensive. And that can rub people the wrong way. Like you want me to pay all this money. Who do you think you are? You know, she gets nasty emails about it. She’s like, you know what? I can’t tell you how to spend your money. And just because one person’s mad that I’m charging this much, another person, I changed their life. So it’s not her job to be in their wallet making their decisions. All she can do is put the offer out there, let them know how she can help. And it’s your decision as a grown adult, the person on the other end of the email, I want to spend the money or I don’t. You’re an adult. You don’t have to. But like, if you had never put the offer in front of me for your course, you change people’s lives with what you’re teaching because I’m in your student group. I have seen people have had blogged forever, never wanted to email, never knew how to sell. And now they are making money because they listen to you. They bought your course like you changed their life.

Speaker4: [00:52:48] You know that in the people that they helped lives change and they have better lives. And it’s like, this is why I do what I do. And I know that sometimes I’m like, oh, well, like, I’m just helping with this and fill in anything that you want to hear that’s still going to make someone’s life better. Oh, well, you know, I just help them with my food blog. You just help somebody not have a what’s for dinner conversation on Wednesday that they always fight about. Like now they’re going to have a great night and now some fun stuff might actually happen after that, all because they were not fighting over what to eat for dinner. And so, like, you need to think about all of these things, like all this stuff. And that’s what gets me. That’s what fuels me like I am so and when you do this for your people and for me, it’s genuine. Other people, I think, are faking it. I am so disproportionately more excited for what my students can accomplish than myself. This is why that email, the open cart email is about them, because I am just as excited when somebody makes their first twenty four dollars now in stem sells, twenty seven hundred thousand dollars million stuff on a different course. Like I am just excited because when somebody actually believes in themselves enough to charge money gets out there and somebody else buys for them, it’s going to flip a switch. And I’m just pumped. Absolutely pumped. All right. So email your list.

Speaker1: [00:54:01] You know, how do people buy this awesome course that you have

Speaker4: [00:54:04] So far since you’re listening to your podcast? Go ahead. Search wherever you are to the inbox. Best podcast. We talk about email marketing, passive income, copywriting. I do a lot of behind the scenes stuff. We’re actually integrating a lot more of that into this particular year because I like listening to those episodes about myself. So we’re doing a lot more behind the scenes stuff there. We have the two years worth of strategically planned email ideas. So these are prompts. So we go ahead and break them down by month. And spoiler alert, if you’re listening to this and you’re like, but April already past April comes back again, so you’ll be fine. Just use it next April, you’re good, chances are it’s going to come back. I don’t think they’re deleting a month, so it’s fine. I don’t want you thinking, like, oh, I wasted half of this guy. No, no, no, no. Just keep going. It works. It’s circular at the time. It’s different. We actually have a brand new presentation that you guys can go to called The Cookie Effect How to write emails so good. They look at the screen, you can head over to Kate Doster Dotcom forward slash free training and they’ll give you a run there. We’re going to have some tactical staff, some mindset stuff, all of that goodness and spoiler alert you might be able to get into love your list that way.

Speaker1: [00:55:08] Awesome. Or you will definitely link to all of this in the show notes as well so people can easily get there. I’m also an affiliate of her course and I genuinely recommend it. I think it’s amazing. If you want to know more about email marketing, I think Kate’s your girl. So thank you so much for joining us on today’s episode.

Speaker4: [00:55:25] Thank you! I had so much fun. Go email your people. They want to hear from you! 

Speaker3: [00:55:32] Thanks for tuning in to today’s episode of the Empowered Business podcast. If you’re ready to get started creating digital products and take your business to the next level, download my free digital product toolbox, head to Monica Fros, dotcom or slash tool box to grab it. As always, you can find all of the links and information mentioned in this episode at Monica Froese Dotcom forward slash podcast see you right here again next week.